Doubting Anabaptism — Joel Martin — Ep. 119

Well, hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. Thanks for tuning in. I'm here today in State College, Pennsylvania, with Joel Martin. Joel, thanks for being here. Joel, for the viewers who don't know who you are and don't know anything about you, can you give us just a bit of an introduction about your life and yourself? Um, did you come from an Anabaptist background? Uh, just go through a few of those preliminaries before we get started, just to lay some groundwork here. Sure.

I'm glad to do that. So, I'm married. Uh, Kelsey and I have five children. Uh, we live here in State College, Pennsylvania. Lived here since 2013. Moved here to help start a base for All Nations Bible Translation. Uh, it's my vocation. I work full-time for All Nations Bible Translation.

Yes, I was raised Anabaptist. Grew up in a conservative Mennonite setting. I would say that I had a very, uh, solid and good, uh, home context, uh, church context. Uh, went to a youth group that was, um, looking back, um, yeah, just a fun-loving, uh, great group of people to grow up with. So, went to a private school and, um, yeah, have a lot of fond memories from my childhood years. So, you grew up Anabaptist, but my understanding is you didn't always stay there. Can you tell us a little bit about losing interest, so to speak, in Anabaptism and what that part of your journey looked like and, and growing up and sort of departing or, or moving away from how you were raised?

Sure. So, just for clarification, uh, I actually never left the Anabaptist church, but there was a point in time that I was, uh, hoping to leave and considering to leave at least my local church context where I grew up. Um, I can talk about that some. Uh, that journey was, I think, primarily, um, spurred on by the reality of, uh, as I was searching for what is radical Christianity, what does it look like to be a, a passionate, uh, follower of Jesus.

I started to become disillusioned in my own home church setting. Um, it seemed that, um, you know, when it came to evangelism, maybe singing at nursing homes was kind of the, um, yeah, that was our main evangelistic outreach. Um, prayer meetings, um, yeah, were kind of dry. Um, most people were more interested in, in business, making money, material things, hunting, whatever, than at least it seemed to me, uh, than maybe passionate about God, seeking first the kingdom. So, that put me in a, in a place of, of searching, uh, where is real Christianity? What does it look like to, in the 21st century, uh, be a radical follower of Jesus?

In that journey then, what, what convinced you to stay if you never left? How did you, how did you come to a place of, of reconciling the behavior that you were just mentioning with the scriptural teaching of, of Christ? And what convinced you to stay? Sure. That's a great question. So, yeah, as I said, I was looking for a way to leave. I was kind of on my way toward leaving.

And, uh, several things, three things really come to mind. First of all, the summer I was 18, I had a severe accident. I actually broke my back. It was a job-related accident. I had an expensive helicopter ride and spent, uh, five days in the hospital and then six months in recovery, uh, pretty well flat on my back, about 24 hours a day. And had a lot of time during that summer to just be still, uh, reflect. Uh, what is God trying to, to teach me? Um, I'm trying to follow the Lord, but, um, obviously God is putting me in a time of, of, um, yeah, a time of, of chastening, a time of, of difficulty, of trial.

I would say the main thing that I felt, there was a number of lessons that, that I believe God wanted to teach me. The main thing I felt coming through that situation, kind of toward the end of those six months when I was able to start to get up and walk again, uh, the number one message that I felt like God was impressing on my heart was, "Joel, I've placed you where I want you, um, under the church authority in the context where I want you. Don't run."

So, that was, um, that was one thing. That was a huge game changer. Um, like I said, I was kind of on my way out. Uh, secondly, um, reading the, uh, history of my grandfather. Uh, fortunately, he took time to record that history in his book entitled My Life's Story Complete in Christ by William R. McGrath. And in that book, he described his conversion process. Uh, he was in the United States military in the branch that works with intelligence. And, um, he began reading the teachings of Jesus again. He was somewhat agnostic. He was searching into Buddhism and different other world religions. And as he began reading again the New Testament teachings of Christ, he realized that these teachings are far superior to any other religion he's been studying.

Uh, committed his life to Christ, uh, wrote a letter to his commander. Long story short, got an honorable discharge that put him on a real journey searching for where is true New Testament Christianity? Where are people that are living out the teaching of Jesus? And as he sought in his own journey, uh, read the early church fathers, continued to read early church history, um, he decided, uh, intentionally, um, I want to cast my lot in with the Anabaptist people. As he read church history, came to the 1500s, he realized there was this group called the Anabaptist people, and he had never heard of them before. And as he continued reading, he, he found out that some of them had immigrated to the States during a time of persecution, and he wondered, where are they?

Are there any of them left? So, he, he joined the Anabaptist people. That was, that was really impactful for me to understand more of his story. Maybe the third thing I would mention, there were various factors, but the third key thing was sitting through a class at Calvary Bible School. Brother Marvin Kaufman was teaching a class on Anabaptist history. And unfortunately, uh, a lot of that history, a lot of the original Anabaptist vision was unknown to me. And as I heard about a people who were radical for Jesus, they were really willing to, to sell everything they had. They were willing to, to give it all for the kingdom. I began to realize, I can remember exactly where I was sitting.

It was kind of like a light bulb turned on that I don't have to leave my faith tradition in order to find what I'm looking for. Maybe you just need to return to the roots of what that movement actually originally was founded on. Mm-hmm. So, in examining the early church history and being in classes like the one at Calvary Bible School, what are some of the values that you came to appreciate the most? And as you expound on that, maybe another, uh, question related to that is, what would you say that Anabaptist values, which Anabaptist values are most important and impactful and, and precious to, to us here today? So, at an intellectual level, I believed in things like, um, the two kingdom concept, separation of church and state, uh, non-resistance.

I didn't really know why I believed those things. You know, I knew they were scriptural, but other Christians believed other things. I would say that it was a process of, of learning more about the early church and other kingdom groups besides the Anabaptists that would have embraced these values throughout history. That convinced me that, um, just like the early church, the Anabaptists and others, uh, throughout history, this really was the true church of Jesus. It's a thread that runs so true, so to speak, clear back to the early church. And so, I came to, and studying history and learning more about, uh, the early church, um, began to embrace those values for myself. I would also say that, uh, having the opportunity to go to, uh, a secular university, I say secular, it was, uh, it was a Bible college, fairly secular Christian Bible college, where a number of those values were challenged, uh, made me dig in and say, okay, do I really own these?

If so, why? And that was another step in saying, yes, I really do believe that Jesus, when he says, "My kingdom is not of this world," means that we are to be, um, living with the two kingdom view, et cetera. As far as values today that we could offer, uh, the, the world, um, as a 21st century Anabaptist people, um, you know, I think it's possible to be completely, you know, to be spot on when it comes to non-resistance, the two kingdom concept, separation of church and state, uh, separation from the world, head covering, the list goes on. And yet, um, to have Jesus, to hear Jesus say to us, uh, nevertheless, um, you know, you have all these things right, that's good.

I have someone against you because you've lost your first love. And so, that's, uh, one concern I have for us as a 21st century, um, by name, Anabaptist people. Uh, do we really have that radical love for Christ like our forefathers did? Um, that's a question that I think we need to, to be honest about and, and, um, pray for revival. Uh, what do we have today that the world needs? Uh, one of the values I believe that we have that, um, yeah, the scripture says we should strengthen the things that remain that are ready to die. We still have this at least, uh, to a, to a certain extent is the, the value of strong group community.

So, how will the world know that Jesus is the Son of God, that the teaching of non-resistance, the teaching of the two kingdoms, et cetera, is the true gospel if they don't see it lived out in very practical ways? And so, the kingdom of heaven coming to earth in tangible ways, us sharing together financially, materially, um, doing life together, holding each other accountable, living in Christian community together in a way that as the world looks in, they can see, uh, what it would look like if everyone obeyed the king, uh, what it looks like for us to follow Jesus. Uh, I believe that that is a value hands down that, um, yeah, we dare not lose.

That's something that the world is longing for. I maybe just maybe follow up on that by saying I, one concern I have about, uh, the possibility of us losing that value is that as we see, um, the pressure of, of worldly systems, um, you know, we have the opportunity of, of insurances and, um, government assistance and handouts, um, those pressures on the church, I believe, uh, are trying to squeeze us into a mold that will, um, just become like the 21st century capitalistic, uh, individualistic. You know, I go to church on Sunday and that's kind of my Christianity. So, if we're going to maintain our historic value of, of strong group, uh, tangible communities, it's, it's going to be intentionally.

It's not going to just happen by accident. Mm-hmm. And I'd like to back up a little bit and ask a question that maybe some of our viewers or listeners have right now. And that is, if you could revisit or speak to your 18-year-old self who is really seeking and maybe a bit disillusioned, what would you say to yourself looking back? Are there tools or are there specific things that you would say were impactful and, and key building blocks in, in building that appreciation? You mentioned history as, as one, but are there, are there other things like that that you would recommend or speak to, to yourself? Sure. Certainly. Yeah. Another factor that was huge was finding people within my own faith tradition who were passionate and, and had a love for Christ, but yet they hadn't abandoned their heritage in that pursuit.

So, finding some older mentors who have been willing to pursue Christ and the kingdom of God and, and put that first in their lives, but yet valued and appreciated the traditional, um, the heritage, the principles of the Anabaptist group, um, finding some people who were older than myself, who I could look up to, who, um, really did believe that we should sell what we have and give to the poor, and yet, um, hadn't, you know, abandoned their faith tradition, their heritage in that process. Uh, for me, that was another huge thing. Some tangible people, not just people in history books or someone that's, um, you know, my grandpa was living in Ireland when I was really starting to come full circle and say, I'm going to embrace the Anabaptist vision.

People who you can sit down and actually talk to. So, some, some mentors. Uh, absolutely. That's, that's another huge factor. Mm-hmm. You have a vision for Anabaptist people to be involved in outreach and church planting. And I think that's probably why you're here at All Nations Bible Translation.

Um, what are the building blocks of your vision? When did, when did you start having a vision for outreach and, and Anabaptist people to be involved in, in reaching out and spreading the gospel? How did that vision, uh, formulate and grow in your own life? Sure. That's a good question. So, in my early 20s, I was, uh, studying at Faith Builders and wrote a paper, uh, for one of my classes on the history of the English Bible. And in studying the history of our own Bible, the process of translation, uh, that, uh, went, that the, um, people like William Tyndale, John Wycliffe had to go through to bring the scriptures to people who are speakers of my heart language, became fascinated with the, uh, vocation of Bible translation and started to feel like God was possibly calling me to pursue training to become involved in Bible translation, to take the, the word of God to groups who had never had that opportunity for themselves.

So, mid-20s, I started into training, uh, to become a Bible translator, started studying Greek and linguistics and, uh, transferred from Faith Builders to Lancaster Bible College. And, um, in that process of, of studying, praying, preparing, I began to realize that if I wanted to go and do not only Bible translation, but also church planting, there probably wasn't an organization available to send me that I could feel confident that when it comes to teaching all things as the Anabaptist vision, and people would, would understand that command, it probably wasn't an organization available that would fully support and stand behind me in that vision. We actually went to Christian Aid Ministries. Some friends and I were interested in Bible translation.

We asked them, would you be willing to start a branch that would focus on Bible translation? They thought about it for six months, called a meeting and said, um, we didn't know what they were going to say. I was hoping they would say yes, but they said no. But, uh, we think it's a good vision and you all need to do it. So, um, we had a lot of praying and planning and thinking to do, but long story short, that's what we ended up doing. In 2010, we incorporated as a, as a 501(c)(3) and instead of going to be a Bible translator, I helped to establish All Nations Bible Translation 10 years ago now. So, at this point, we have, um, yeah, there's a lot of water under the bridge, but, um, we've, um, been blessed.

God has, has used the work. There's five teams now in other parts of the world, um, different, five different countries. Um, some people ask me, do you still want to go? And the short answer is yes. Um, maybe God will still open that door. Um, God knows. We'll see. If, if that door would open, I would love to still have a chance to go and be the first one to bring, uh, God's word to an unreached people group. Um, as Paul said, where Christ has not been named, I think that for us as an Anabaptist people, if we really do believe that we're preaching the gospel of the kingdom that Jesus said should be preached in all the world, and then the end will come, that we shouldn't be just going to places where the groundbreaking work of Bible translation, church planting has already happened and kind of reaping the corners of the fields, why shouldn't we have a passion to go where Christ has not been named?

As Paul said, lest we should build on someone else's foundation. So, that's part of the vision of All Nations Bible Translation. We believe that, um, yeah, as it says in Revelation 7:9, one day, uh, every nation and kindred and tongue and tribe will be gathered before the throne. So, while we still have opportunity, um, honestly, I believe we are living in the 11th hour of our civilization as we've known it. And, um, one of my passions is to see as many people recruited and sent. Um, Jesus said we need to work, uh, while it is day because the night comes when no man can work. So, before the curtain of time closes on Western civilization as we've known it, I would like to see many more people going and, uh, taking the message of Jesus to every people group on the planet that has yet to hear.

Well, thank you, Joel, for sharing your heart and, uh, sharing with us your journey of, uh, your journey of being in doubt about where you were and your journey through that to, to where you are today. And appreciate the, the passion that I sense in you and in your work and in God's work. And it really is, is God's work and want to bless you in your continued efforts here. Thank you for encouraging us to seek Christ because it's really his values, not, um, it's the biblical values, not just a subculture. Uh, it's, it's Christ and his, his church, his kingdom. Amen. So, thank you for joining us today and, and sharing a bit of, of your story and really appreciate that.

Thanks for the opportunity.