"Sacred Roots: Why 'Above All' Matters: Moses, Jesus, James, Paul, Maximilian, and You" by Zack J.

The one may be overpowered by another, two can withstand him, and a threefold cord is not quickly broken. This is Strength to Strength, and we welcome you here for another talk and another installment, um, in the series that we're doing right now called Sacred Roots: Rediscovering the Ancient Faith. And the vision statement for this series goes like this: it is to humbly and lovingly rediscover the history of God's people in order to reground, renew, and re-tether our faith and practice.

And we live in a time when there is no better time to reground and renew our love for God's church. Um, God is at work in the world, and He wants to use you, He wants to use me, He wants to use His bride, His church, His work. It is His plan A, um, for His redemption story in our world today. And so we're excited to be, um, at the beginning of this series, and we we mention here that it could probably be 20 talks or more as we work our way, um, up through the history of the church. Uh, we'll be landing around the Anabaptists next year at some point, at the 500th year anniversary of that movement, and then on up into present day, and then looking forward, how do we learn, how do we apply all that we've learned?

Uh, and so we're we're excited. And this morning we'll be looking at the topic here, um, by Zach Johnson called, uh, Why Above All Matters: Moses, Jesus, James, Paul, Maximilian, and You. So Zach, it's really good to have you here again, um, on Strength to Strength. Um, Zach and I are good friends. Uh, I I just appreciate Zach and his family so much. We've had good times with them in their apartment there on in East Boston, where the houses are all kind of on top of each other, um, in your little backyard having a barbecue. Uh, good good times.

Uh, and I'm going to read your bio here, Zach. So Zach Johnson worked for the Air Force as a congressional analyst before receiving an honorable discharge as a conscientious objector. He also spent time in Mozambique working in development and disaster relief.

Zach was born and raised in Ecuador and has a passion for Christianity and the international realm. His interest includes models of world change, travel, and languages. He developed an allegiance to the historic Christian faith while studying the Bible through Greek and finding a faithful church community.

Zach is the president at Sattler College. He, his wife, Crystal, and their three children now, right, Zach? Three children. Uh, a new a new one here in the last several months, I believe. Congratulations. Beginning of October. That's right. Yeah. Uh, and their and their children are part of the Followers of the Way in East Boston, Massachusetts.

Um, and yeah, so it's good to have you with us here, um, this morning, Zach. Um, before we just pause for prayer, I want to talk about two things, two announcements here. And one is that you're going to be hearing this later on today and that we have a new book coming out on Strength to Strength called A Great Nation: Um, Rescuing Abraham from Dispensationalism.

Um, if if you are uh a kingdom Christian and want to see God faithfully represented on this earth, I challenge you to read that book. Uh, the author is Gregory Weaver, uh, from Wendell Martins, uh, Congregation Wendell's here on the call with us, uh, church in Pittsburgh. Um, and Greg has been thinking about this topic for years. Um, the issue of of how do we look, uh, and what what kind of kicked off his journey was how do we as kingdom Christians look at the nation-state of Israel. Uh, and so and it led him to a study of God's Word and a passion to see us look at the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus and that all these things get fulfilled in that.

It's a book that that, um, has been on the envelope now for five years or more. Uh, and then in the last eight months to a year here at Strength to Strength, we've had other people helping him. Um, and it's it's going on the store, and we'll be announcing it later on today. We actually have an interview, um, with Greg. It's currently on YouTube, um, but it'll be going out on the other platforms later on today as well. So check that book out. We also have quantity discounts as well. We want to see this book get out. We think in this cultural moment, there's no better time to be engaging Christians, um, engaging the Anabaptist world and helping us think about clearly, uh, with clarity, how do we live in our world today and be faithful ambassadors of King Jesus.

And then secondly, um, this book here, The Patient Ferment of the Early Church, The Improbable Rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire. This is one of our core reading materials for this course, uh, or for this series. Um, so we really want to combine, you know, at Strength to Strength, the revisions is to combine, um, digital media with physical media. We think there's a lot of power in that, um, and and using our talks to actually lead us into a lot more resources. And we think this book here, uh, he outlines how the early church, um, interfaced with the world. Uh, we'll be hearing more about that here this morning with Zach, I'm sure. Um, but a lot of challenging ideas there.

And so we want to challenge you to read that book as well. Again, we have an interview, uh, or actually a book review. Um, Alan Kreider is no longer no longer living, but we have a book review, uh, online, uh, and also the book as well on our store. So, all right, now let's let's jump into this and let's begin with prayer. Let's pray. And quick quick question, brother. Yes, brother. Where can where can you buy those? Just is it right on the website? I was just going to write down right on Strength to Strength or where do you go? That's right. Um, yep, go to strength to strength.org.

Um, and we have our bookstore there on part of that website. Um, we actually kicked off the bookstore a year ago. Yeah. Uh, we now have four books published by Strength to Strength, and we've sold around 7,000 books, uh, in one year. And so it definitely went took off in ways that we didn't even hardly dream about. Um, and we're excited. We have some more things coming on the pike here. One of those is, uh, a whole curriculum by Salt and Light, um, or the Salt Group out of CAM. Uh, it's a division of CAM. And of course, they do work in other parts of the world. Zach, you would be really interested in this, um, with their savings groups, which you know all about that, I'm sure.

Um, you've been been around that, but, uh, they had this new course specifically for those in North America, kind of working in our ecosystem with our neighbors here and some of the challenges. And it's it's four different books, um, their courses, and and and and we are printing and shipping, uh, those books for Salt for for the Salt Group. Um, it's called Salt and Light. Uh, and that'll be coming out here shortly too. So that's been something going on behind the scenes, um, here at Strength to Strength. So, uh, yeah, congratulations on all the work to get that. I know the last time we visited, it was just it was sort of an idea. So I wasn't congratulated.

Yeah, congratulations. Yeah, well, it was a fun little brainstorm that this the admin had one day and, um, you know, that we had the right components there to make it happen by God's grace. And Glenn and his wife, they ship it and, uh, they they ship their books the same day. Like when an order comes in, you'll get it. You'll get it quicker than Amazon anymore. So unless you're in Canada, the Canadians, you know, that's it's not quite as good up there. But sorry, Justin. Um, but yeah. So, all right, enough for the books and and time for this topic. Can't wait. Uh, thank you, Zach, for those clarifying questions. And let's pause for prayer.

Father, we come to you in Jesus' name this morning. Thank you for your many, many blessings. Thank you for your mercies that are new this morning. And thank you that we can know that that that you are God and that your Son is our elder brother, uh, the our King, our Lord, our Savior, our Master, our High Priest, our Mediator, um, our Advocate. Father, we we we have so much. We have the we have the grace of heaven poured out on us. And so, Father, I pray that we could be uh we would not just be cul-de-sacs. We would not absorb that grace, but that we could be channels and conduits into our world. Our world is is in deeply in need of uh of your kingdom, of of heaven, uh of your ways uh on this earth.

And thank you that we can be those representatives. Uh, we can be those those ambassadors uh for you. And so, Father, I pray you would strengthen us that we could go from strength to strength, um, that are and that also our church communities could be strengthened. Father, we know that we live in a time with as much division. Uh, there's just many things that come at us. Uh, there's uh it's it's it's a challenging time to to be strong group, um, to be cities on a hill. But Father, we deeply want to see this series, um, strengthen individual believers, but also strengthen your church and challenge people if they're not plugged in and involved with a congregation to to do that.

Father, we we love those words there in Matthew 16 that says, uh, I will build my church. Well, you're you're Jesus, you said that. You said, I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And so we we want to believe that and and enact that, uh, in our world today. So use us, Lord. Blessed Brother Zach in a special way here this morning. And we ask this in Jesus' name. Amen.

All right. Amen. Or your brother. Yeah. Good good morning, everyone. I I was I was asked to share on sort of some distinctives of the early church. And I I always feel like when I when I think about that, I I love to speak to something that I have a little bit more experience with. And so if if if some of you haven't heard my story, the the topic I'm going to talk about today is is just around oaths and why oaths matter. And I think it's it's actually incredibly stunning to me that if you know my story, I was I was born and raised as a missionary kid down in Quito, Ecuador. And I spent 18 years of my life really in a in the thick of a very intentional Christian evangelical community.

And this teaching was one that I almost never heard talked about in my entire, uh, growing up years. And I I like to tell a a story where actually to graduate from my high school, and, uh, we we had to do something called the the Juramento a la Bandera in Spanish, which basically means like swearing allegiance to the flag of of Ecuador. And and so when I was 18, I stood there, um, they they pick a student from the class that's an Ecuadorian citizen, and I I had dual citizenship. So I I sat there with a flag as each one of my classmates kind of walked walked in front of me. And they you bend down, get on one knee, and you you take the Ecuadorian flag and you kiss it and you say, "Sí, juro," which basically means I I swear to to fulfill this sort of pledge to Ecuadorian flag.

And there's sort of this this statement that gets read. And so I did that at 18. And there was actually zero dialogue around whether or not that action was coherent with Jesus' teachings, which I just find really, really interesting after after coming into this the teaching on oaths a little bit later in life. And the irony in my story is six months later, after I actually took that oath myself, I actually renounced my citizenship, um, to join the Air Force. And so I flew up to Colorado Springs and then marched into a field with a thousand other, uh, American citizens. And then I we took the the oath, like a a preliminary oath of office to the American flag.

And so and I and I I'm not kidding you. I didn't even think about the sort of the paradigms and and contrasting those actions with the teachings of Jesus. It just wasn't built into my lens of reading the scriptures. And and then four years later, I took another oath of commissioning into the Air Force. So that's I took three pretty significant oaths that I would I would label as as fitting a definition that I'm about to give. And then unless you're living under a rock, um, many of you have witnessed the the presidential election in the last season here. We'll we'll see it every four years. And I like to I like to paint the picture of what what the president of the United States will do in January.

So if you haven't if you haven't seen this, I just want to paint this picture for you. So in January, Donald Trump will will get up in front of the whole country. They'll place a Bible in front of him and he'll put his left hand on the Bible. Most of you are familiar with this. He'll put his left hand on the Bible and then he'll raise his right hand and then he'll he'll say the the following words. I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of the president of the United States and will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. And then the person administrating the oath will say, "So help you, God."

And then he will most likely respond with, "So help me, God." And so I just want to start there on on a definition, I think a helpful definition to me of what an oath is. And my my I think a lot of people in the back of their mind, they they they have trouble differentiating between oaths, vows, contracts, covenants, promises. They're all in a similar category. But we by just reading the New Testament, we know for certain that Jesus and later teachers were differentiating between oaths and vows and making statements of of of promises. And so it's it's really helpful to actually nail down some helpful thinking about what makes an oath different from some of these other things.

So my favorite definition comes from a man named Daniel Lowry in a just a lexicon. He says, "Swearing an oath, uh, swearing an oath affirms the veracity of one's statement by invoking a transcendent entity. And then it's frequently with an implied invitation of punishment if one is untruthful." So there so let's just let's start there with with what an an oath is. So the first component is this claim to truth or some sort of commitment that you make to a set of statements. The second is an appeal to a higher authority in in the oaths that I have taken. Often you're actually invoking the name of God. You're calling upon God to to sort of give your statement, uh, some sort of higher level of trustworthiness.

And then this this invitation of punishment. So those three sort of moving pieces, I I would say are are what I I see, especially in modern-day language around like what should get everybody's, uh, spiritual holy their their Holy Spirit's, uh, goosebumps going if you're ever in a statement and you're and you're thinking about, "Oh, is this right? Is this an oath? Is this not an oath?" And and it's not always really, really simple. I I think that there's a little bit more nuance there. So just to just to sort of draw upon to so that people understand where I'm going with this. When you look at the presidential oath, you can see all three of those components.

So you you get this claim to a truth or a promise. The president says these words that he'll protect the Constitution, an appeal to a higher authority. And so the the presidential oath is interesting that the appeal to a higher authority and the invitation to punishment are in the same sentence. So I think the appeal to authority happens with the left hand on the Bible. You you everyone can see that there as I'm I'm appealing to the scripture as the authority and the invitation of punishment is, "So help me, God." And so I think everyone can see these three, uh, these three components working together there. Yeah. So and I wanted to mention if if anybody when I talk about oaths, there's a lot of questions.

So I'm going to try to hold some time at the end to make sure that people are tracking. But I just went through those three components and going to move into here through through through the Old Testament. And I'm not going to spend tons of time trying to to go into all the the definitional nuances in scripture because it just takes a little bit too much time. But I'd invite people to to sort of, if you're really interested, to sort of track these passages. Sure. And Zach, could you just repeat those three things again here? I was just I was a little slow in catching up catching on there and I don't have them all.

So yeah, so it's it's a claim to truth, an appeal to a higher authority, and then an invitation or, uh, to punishment are the are the three the three general like prongs of a I think I'll call it like the the full tilt oath, which which I think are are helpful to understand. Great. Thank you.

Yeah. And so we we see we see Moses open open with oath taking in in Numbers and Deuteronomy. Moses says, "If a man takes a vow to the Lord or swears an oath to bind himself by some agreement, he shall not break his word."

And then later on in Deuteronomy, he writes, "You shall fear the Lord your God and serve him and shall take oaths in his name." And so we we get a little bit of an interesting start to the to the oaths here.

And then what and then a lot of people comment that Jesus comes in later as as the the new Moses. So when you look at Moses as a teacher versus Jesus, it's really interesting to see the parallels behind Moses going up on Mount Sinai, receiving the tablets and coming down. Then we see then we see Jesus coming down and giving the the sermon on the mount. And so I I do think that we should be cued in that Jesus here is really changing the way that his that his God's people should think about oaths. And and that's really the core teaching that I I think scripture really stands for itself here. So I'll read I'll read Matthew here, 5:33 through 37.

I'm sure everyone is familiar with it. Again, you have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord." But I say to you, do not swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is God's throne, nor by the earth, for it is his footstool, nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black, but let your yes be yes and your no know, for whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

And I wanted to park there just for a second to think about some of the things that are are going on here in and especially this passage here. So has has anybody here ever I know it isn't completely interactive. Anybody seen in a court of law where if they call witnesses before the stand, what they ask the witnesses to to swear? Is anybody familiar? So in in the U.S. courts, at least, each witness gets up and says, "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help me, God." And so that's actually an oath that a lot of witnesses will will say. And that that's actually still an active practice to swear somebody in before they're a witness in a court case.

And what's what's happened here is is really interesting where somehow in in our culture, we view it to be more of a the the level of sin or quote unquote wrongness to lie under oath versus to lie in everyday life. We've differentiated between the two where, hey, if if you're going about your everyday life and like you fib a little here, you fib a little there, no big deal. But then all of a sudden, there's this light switch moment. If you take an oath and you lie under it, then it becomes some sort of elevated deal of, "Oh, you you lied under oath," which actually makes you even more liable to your words. And and I think this is exactly what Jesus is trying to warn against because he closes out the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount.

He says, "Now let your yes be yes and your no know." And I I think the the levels that Jesus here teaches is is really fascinating where you could imagine yourself, if you really want someone to believe you, you would swear by God's throne. Like if if this was a really important moment, you'd pick God's throne. But let's just say that, uh, you you kind of just want someone to believe you and you might swear by your own head. So Jesus even what what I anticipate was happening is people would sort of pick sort of what level of oath they wanted, how how seriously people wanted to take you. And then they'd pick that level.

I think everyone can imagine some of the moments where you're you're trying to pick, "Hey, what am I going to swear by to try to convince this person that I'm I'm telling the truth here?" And Jesus is completely warning against that. And and then what I what I I'll keep going here, what I really imagine is when you when you get into examples of the oath. So right after Jesus's ministry and during Jesus's crucifixion, we see Peter engage in an oath when he denies Jesus. So right after Jesus's life, we we during the crucifixion or right right then not after his life, these people approach Peter and he's like, "I swear I don't know Jesus."

And I think that's a really interesting example on how the disciples interacted around these teachings where somehow the the the temptation to to to swear an oath also kicks in to protect yourself in in moments of of like intense persecution. So we see Peter do that. And then and then in James, which is where the title of my talk, I just grabbed that above all, when you read through the book of James, James is arguably the the half brother of of Jesus.

It's I think James is one of my favorite just condensed uh books in the New Testament just because it's so punchy and poignant and straightforward, very practical. In James 5, after giving an many teachings on giving to the poor, guarding yourself, just all sorts of of of just refreshing Jesus's teachings, he says, "But above all, my brethren, do not swear either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no know, lest you fall into judgment." So right there, I I I still want to bring it back to the the beginning of my talk that I it shocks me that oaths have become sort of a I'm not even going to say a taboo topic, maybe a forgotten topic that people just really have not taken these teachings seriously across the broad church.

And the the above all statement, I think, is really interesting. And then people often ask me, like, "Why why shouldn't we take oaths? What's the big deal?" And I can take some stabs at that answer. But if we if we just read the the scripture for what it is, James is warning us that that you will fall into judgment somehow by the oaths. And then Jesus, when he ends his teachings, "For whatever is more than these is from the evil one." So I I just think that starting with scripture is very important there and that the dialogue after these oaths becomes really interesting to to interact with people, but never to forget how simple I think the teachings are and and to heed the warnings there.

So when we we keep going here through through uh just misuses of oaths in scripture, I think it's really interesting after Jesus gives the the oath to think about some biblical examples and we'll we'll keep moving through time here.

So here's some some negative uses of oaths in scripture. Everyone is probably familiar with Jephthah in the Old Testament and judges there. Jephthah swore to sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house if he wins the a battle. Do people remember what walks into what walks into his tent? His his firstborn daughter walks into his tent. And so Jephthah is there like, "Oh, man, how did I make an oath to to have to sacrifice my my daughter?" Fast forward to the the New Testament, um I would say Herod's oath to to his his wife there, Herodias. He swore to give Herodias' daughter anything she wanted after this dance because she pleased Herod. And we all know how that story ends.

So the daughter gives the dance and then she asks for the head of John the Baptist. So interestingly, oaths play into the execution of arguably the greatest prophet as well. And I don't think a lot of people think about that moment as a fulfillment of an oath here.

And then I brought this up before, but Peter's false oath where he actually he says he swore an oath that he didn't know Jesus. And he that that moment is where you compound an oath with a lie. So it gets it gets pretty tricky there. And then I'm not going to so we've gone from Moses to Jesus to James, went through some oaths. The probably the most challenging theological um conversation to have with someone around oath taking is then mapping on Paul's and some of Paul's writings. Paul uses some language that approaches what could be known as an oath. So we have to we have to look at some of that and say, "Hey, did if Jesus taught against oaths, why is Paul then using some language?"

So in Romans 1:9, Paul says, "God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit and gospel and his son." In Philippians 1:8, again, Paul calls God as his witness, "For God is my witness, how greatly I long for you with all the affection of Jesus Christ." And then Paul even in Acts 18, some of you are probably interesting, Paul took this vow and cut his hair. So we see we see actually Paul using some language that that kind of looks like oath taking. But my my general my general just line of reasoning here that where I think Paul isn't using an oath is is something to the effect that Paul had to tell people that he spoke to God.

And we actually don't necessarily encounter a time where where we have this this kind of Christ-like encounter like Paul did. And we're we're we're appealing to that moment. And I think Paul is is really appealing to that moment in his life to convince the Jews for for accepting him into into the the Christ fold. And so I I just wanted to say that Paul appears to use some languages that approximates oaths, but I don't think it mimics what Jesus is warning against and doesn't have that three-pronged sort of that three-pronged approach. And you do get sort of that appeal to higher authority.

But I don't think I think you can make an argument that although Paul uses this language, we we probably shouldn't be using it in our cases in our language either because we didn't necessarily have that Pauline experience with God. And if somebody does, then then I guess then I guess the appeal that that Paul is using here, that the door gets open for them. But I I personally will would just avoid some of that Pauline language in my own life, unless, of course, you have that moment with God and and things like that. So so the so now we move through just the arc of the Bible on where we see oaths. And this is where we we get into sort of studying the early Christians and it where it ties into the sacred roots and and things like this.

And and I'll I'll just read a couple of a couple of passages here on on where where we see oaths being um being talked about here. So actually in the Didache, again, the Didache is this really early document that it was summarizing some of the the Christian practices. Again, it it makes its way in, "Do not swear at all, but let your yes be yes and your no know." So they're repeating repeating Jesus's teachings there. Justin Martyr, when you many people are are familiar with Justin Martyr as an apologist, he he teaches again here, "We have been taught not to swear at all, but always to speak the truth."

And I don't think I'll read all of the you could I could read early Christian quotes for a long period of time, but I it would probably take the whole call. Origen is another very well-known apologist. He's living around 185 to 253 AD. He says, "For whatever goes beyond the simple and natural, such as swearing or anything else, is from evil." So he's repeating Jesus's teaching there. And then and then we have Hippolytus is another sort of contemporary to Origen. He says he says if and he he's specifically talking about soldiers and and talking about Christians and the communion table. If a soldier takes an oath, he is to be rejected.

And I I when when you look at the the arc of the witness there, I I just think it's it's important to tie practice to teaching and to and to really understand. I think we we I listened to a couple talks, especially the one by David Verso on why is it important to study the early church on this topic. I think the this rings really true that that there there wasn't a ton of change in interpretation, especially in the first 300 years of Christianity, which for for us, we should be very, very, very careful to to try to search for an interpretation around oath taking that sort of skirts from skirts from just a literal uh interpretation of it.

And my my favorite story that I'll I'll just talk about with is is the Maximilian story. So I'll I'll throw out a shout to another book here, which I think has been brought up in some talks where I first bumped into a man named Maximilian, who is arguably the first documented conscientious objector. And there's a whole dialogue recorded between him and him and a sort of a somebody that's trying to draft him into the Roman army. And you can find it in a book called Caesar in the Land by George Calansis. And there's this moment he just says, "I cannot serve as a soldier. I cannot do the evil. I am a Christian." And then right after that moment, Maximilian knows he knows the consequences are to to have his his head cut off.

And actually, there's like in the story, there's some people just pleading with him, "Please don't throw away your life to refuse this oath." And I like to point out there that that it was that I think actually in the back of people's minds that in that moment, they would have there's this front line of thinking, "Why not Maximilian just join the army and then go to the front lines and just avoid using violence?" Sort of appealing to some of Jesus's other teachings. But I think it's it's fascinating that that Maximilian was not he stood his ground right before entering. And the oath was kind of the the prohibiting factor for him when he was joining the the military there.

So we we see an early Christian witness of martyrdom around oath taking. And I think it's it's it's important to just look at that moment and try to map it on to ourselves a little bit here. So some some people are very familiar with the the story of maybe a Desmond Doss. Does that name ring any ring any familiarity in the audience here? I see Brian shaking or saying yes. So Desmond Doss, there was a movie that was actually made about his life called it's called Hacksaw Ridge. It was a Mel Gibson movie made pretty famous here. And he was he he was actually a Seventh-day Adventist who became a combat medic. And actually, I just want to give a shout out.

His his life story is phenomenally amazing. He went through tons of of persecution in the army to to join and and take a status as a non-combatant. And sort of he went to the front lines and actually ends up saving a lot of lives in in Japan there during World War II. However, the the the moment that I think is really interesting is that there's there's sort of an emphasis on non-resistance, but the oaths part kind of gets just pushed to the wayside and the oath isn't a big deal. And I think when you when you sort of study out the the refusal of oaths, we should be quick to tune into the the the Jesus's prohibition here.

And the other the other just point of discussion that there's a few points of discussion that I want to touch on here with oaths. And then I actually would love to would love to get into some some dialogue here because I think it's very important. A lot of people make arguments that in particular, Christians were rejecting the contextual oath of their day that has now changed over time. So I'm not a Latin speaker, but the the military oath was called something like the sacramentum. And if you study if you study anything about the the Roman culture, that this people talk about how this oath in particular was what the the early Christians were rejecting, this particular context to the particular country of Rome, and that somehow over time, it became more acceptable for Christians to take that oath.

And I think you fast forward now to this day and age, and you would get a lot of a lot of people thinking about how, you know, the United States is very different than Rome. And it's it's actually okay now for Christians to take oaths because the government has changed into a more I'll just call it more of like a godlike country. And I actually think a lot of people think like that. Um And I I would just I would just really, really, really like caution caution people to take a really straightforward look and and compare and contrast Rome versus some of the other countries of the world. And my my just general thesis there is that you it's it I hesitate greatly to make very significant differences between between Rome back in the day of the early Christians and today and just across the across the board, across the whole world on on oath taking.

And then the other the other just really interesting thing to talk about is so now there's actually been a little bit of a religious history, particularly I'll talk about the U.S. context, but this could be applicable to other parts of the world where a lot of people have actually gotten a little bit tuned into this oath language and they've they've come up with with ways to change the language of the oath in order to permit Christians to to participate. The the the best example of this is now that in a lot of oaths, when you go and take them, you can actually choose to say, "I swear or affirm." Has has anyone bumped into that option before?

Yeah, Glenn, you have. And so the I I believe I I looked into this a little bit and it was actually the Quakers who actually asked for this change of language to come in and say, "Hey, rather than saying, 'I swear to this set of statements,' what if I just affirm this set of statements?" And then what if at the end of the sentence, rather than saying, "So help me God," we just take that part out a little bit as well? So I want to just park a little bit on on that way around and around taking oaths. And I think this is probably where most of us in this call, where where this type of thinking is probably where it's going to touch our lives a little bit more, is where we're looking at the word a statement in front of us and it's going to say, "Swear."

And we have to sort of engage with, "Can I swear to this statement? Can I even sign a document that says the word swear? Can I engage in a context where the word swearing is included?" And this is where I think this is just a call to being really on guard with what you commit to and what you use your words for. But this is my other point, is that just because you change swear to affirm and cross out the so help me God, let's just look look at the presidential oath, it is still behooves the all Christians to let our yes be yes and our no be no. So even if somebody puts a set of statements in there and says, "Can you affirm this?"

And it involves some arena where you're going to be compromised in in following Jesus's teachings, I would say stay away from that and say no to it. Um I would say most oaths of of government office that involve some form of law enforcement, you are going to be pledging yourself to a set of teachings or or commitments that in themselves are compromising your ability to follow Christ. So this whole idea of crossing out a swear and putting a firm with a big oath is, I would say there's a lot of danger there. However, so this is where I have a story where I I preached a sermon on oaths at a a Chambersburg over there in Pennsylvania.

And I think the audience misread me or it came across that I said that you can't cross out swear in any document at any point in time. And this is where I I just wanted to say there are times where you can engage with language that says swear and you can just nuance it and say, "Actually, I can't swear, but can I just tell the truth?" And you can you can sort of put your name on that document. Has anyone here ever encountered a swear on a on a sort of a legal document in the audience? Yeah, Glenn, if you've ever bought a house, if you've ever for for us in East Boston, every time we renew our parking passes, we there's this thing that's at the bottom, you have there's this box that that you have to check that says, "I swear the information is correct."

And every time I do it, I'm like, "Ah," because I I actually will go in, I'll I'll print out the form and go to the town hall and I'll say, "Hey, I can't I don't like I can't swear. Can you just cross this out and say that I'm telling the truth?" And they they accept it every time. And I do that. I I participate in that and I I turn in the the the documents. And even in any legal document, I'm I'm very hyper-focused on on making sure that it doesn't appear that I'm swearing. And but that doesn't prohibit me from engaging with sort of the tools of our times without just being extremely cautious there.

And so I I wanted to just sort of end and open it up to questions with just sort of the whys of why Jesus why I think that Jesus is talking about oaths and and sort of the dangers and the pitfalls. And I I even in the title of my talk, I tried to allude to the fact that I I think it's two-pronged.

One is that Jesus is calling us to a life of constant honesty and integrity. And I think that all of us can just affirm a hearty amen to that, that we are called to always be truthful, always be honest. And there is no circumstance where we get a pass for not being uh honest and truthful and in our words and our speech and in our actions. And there's a there's a sermon by that I that I think is a really good one. It's called Oaths as as the World's Substitute to to Truthfulness. And I I think that that's true is that the world is actually searching for this answer that Jesus is giving. And so they come up with oaths as the way to sort of elevate and call people to honesty.

But Jesus is saying, "Always be honest." You you don't get to to contextualize when you get to be honest and when you don't get to be honest. And I I actually think that I'll tell a short story here on why I think this is semi-relevant. And this opens a little bit of another hypothetical can of worms for people here. But when I was in the Air Force, I did my research for the the Secretary of the Air Force, their their program for international affairs. And I was doing my research at the ironically at the Pentagon. And I got to to sort of get a little bit of a view of how the how the United States interacts with our allies and how we how much money we put into different training programs across across different countries.

And what I saw there was was really interesting in that it's really hard under a U.S. oath to not be almost completely self-interested in yourself. And so what what I what I ended up seeing was the U.S. keeps each sort of each of our allies exactly where we want them in terms of where we want their their development to be to be in terms of military power. And and it's okay to actually fib to people that that, "Hey, it's we've we've given you everything we have in terms of capability and training," when when in reality, you're withholding some information for your own self-interest. And you actually see that a lot in in people under oath.

They they swear an oath to to the U.S. And then all of a sudden, they're able to sort of lie in order to protect that U.S. self-interest. And you see this a lot actually in foreign affairs where it's okay to fib if it somehow promotes the good of the good of this like greater cause or nation. And I think I think people can kind of get where I'm going with there that you sort of open the store to say, "Hey, I'm allowed to lie to you because it's part of my job." And and I think that's that's very, very dangerous. So that's one example of where I just think this constant truthfulness kicks in and it says, "Hey, somebody that's allegiance to Christ could never kind of indicate to someone that they're safer than they are and they're withholding they're withholding some training, some information, although it'll actually make that person safer."

And then the other the other arena that I that I came up with where oaths where oath taking is actually really relevant is in negotiations and and bartering. So have have any of you ever entered into entered into like a pretty large-scale negotiation on a contract or even buying a car or something like that? Any anybody on the call, have you have you negotiated? And they maybe maybe not. Yeah. So I'm just I'm just trying to get at this. So there's this other arena where like you're trying to you're trying to get a good deal on something and people will act as if they didn't have as much money as they actually have to spend on something.

And you're actually trained to to almost lie about the resources you have access to in a negotiation with somebody. And I maybe maybe people can this might might not be for everybody, but I've actually seen Christian instinct is to get still get the good not maybe it's not Christian human instinct is to get the best deal for yourself. And Jesus I think Jesus is actually warning against this. He's he's calling us to not to not like play into those games of like, "Oh, I don't have cash on me." I I think about this teaching just really frequently if you're if you live in a city and somebody asks you for cash. And I've I've watched a lot of people say, "I don't have cash," but they have the cash in their pocket.