Welcoming Seekers Part 2 — Ernest Eby — Ep. 052

So you're talking about how the church is on a journey together, trying to find this rule of life, striving together for that. What does someone do when they feel that their church is doing this poorly, like these rules are being done poorly, especially when you consider submission to one's local church? Yeah, this is definitely any person that has really tried to cooperate with the church has come up against, I believe.

I believe there's value in submitting to things that make little sense to us. Interesting. Okay. It's good for our overall development. People who don't ever learn how to do this, I think, maybe walk with a limp the rest of their life and will probably end up hurting or neglecting other people that they're responsible for. Now, I do think that if we are submitted to the church, that when the timing is right and our attitudes are right, there can be room for appeal.

But in the meantime, there's hundreds of opportunities for being an example of the believers, which will then, in turn, earn us the right to speak, the right to appeal, the right to ask questions. You're not saying, okay, if there's something majorly wrong, you should just, you know, lie down and never say anything, but you do need to earn your voice, I guess you could say. That's right. Yeah, like prove that you are a submissive person. You're not trying to just kick against things. You're not being rebellious. You're coming at it with the proper attitude.

Sure. Would you say it has a lot more to do with how you're presenting it than what you're actually saying? Makes a big difference. Yeah. People can tell a little bit from our attitude what we're doing and what we're thinking. But then sometimes people really have beliefs that they want to hold to, and it doesn't really matter what attitude you have. They still don't want to make a change or don't want to reevaluate some things. And in those cases, that's where I'm talking about we just need to submit and learn how to work together as a brotherhood. And even maybe submitting to decisions you don't personally agree with, but you do so for the sake of the rest of your church.

That's right. Submission is a thing that's very strongly encouraged in Scripture. And I wonder sometimes where it seems like we're very quick to, instead of choosing the route of submission, choose the route of, "Oh, wait, wait, we need to fix this." Like this is... That's right. Yeah. So you've been sharing some about how it is really hard for seekers to join into the Anabaptist culture, especially the conservative Anabaptist culture. And recently you wrote an article about this and gave some suggestions on how we can get these people who want to join our churches, how we can get them to fully integrate well and in a healthy way. Can you speak into that some? Well, I think we should expect the flavor of the church to change as newcomers join the church.

So maybe I can give this illustration. If there's five people sitting in a circle and a sixth person comes up and wants to join the circle, the people who are sitting in the circle have the option of just staying planted right there and making the sixth person sit on the outside and kind of listen in, or they can reposition their chairs and include the new person in the circle. The group may need to learn some new songs, and they may need to eat some different foods. They may need to learn a different way of communicating to include this next person into their circle. Whether a church is willing to reposition themselves and make the newcomer feel fully a part of the circle will make a big difference in whether that person will be integrated into the church and feel a sense of belonging.

Now, the newcomer, of course, should not assume that the group will do everything his way and that they all need to do what he wants them to do. There needs to be a mutual adjusting. So everyone in the church should be learning and growing. And if everyone in the church is learning and growing, the newcomer will feel right at home. Everyone should have people who are discipling them, and they should have people that they're helping to disciple. Anyone who is seeking God can encourage other people to follow Jesus and read the Bible, even if they're not yet Christians or even if they're not part of the church. This is probably one of the most amazing things that we've observed as we've interacted with unchurched people here in State College the last few years, is that God can use people who are just beginning the journey towards learning who He is and that He exists to tell other people, their friends, even people back in their home country, about what they're learning about God, even if they've not yet made a commitment to Him.

So in order for there to be a culture of Christian growth, there must be tons of patience. We talked about that earlier. For people that don't have a New Testament cultural heritage, the church should provide safe places for people to ask any question they wish and be able to hear a mature answer. They should be able to ask questions about faith, questions about church practices, questions about relationships. We shouldn't assume anything.

We should not assume that people know things. We should not assume that they don't know things. And the way to find out that is to just ask them, "Has anybody ever talked to you about this?" And if they haven't, then you can talk to them and explain it to them. You don't want to make them feel like they don't know anything, but neither do you want to just assume that they should probably know this by now. Another point would be to explain the unique aspects of our subculture. Every Christian group has them, so we should be prepared to explain them to newcomers. I'm trying to think how to say it, but our churches should be this: it's a safe place where people feel open to share what they're feeling.

Like, "I don't understand this." You know, I want input, not necessarily because they're trying to question things, but it's a safe enough place that real hard questions can be asked and answered. Yeah. That's probably not very easy to cultivate something like that, is it? It is not. And that is something that seekers often mention, is that they had this question, but they weren't sure if they wanted to ask it because of how people would look at their question. So what would you say, considering everything that we've discussed over the last two episodes, what would you say to someone who is potentially considering joining an Anabaptist church?

What advice would you give them? Well, first of all, I would mention some things that David Berceau talks about in his message, "Finding Fellowship in the 21st Century." He suggests that seekers have three options if they're looking for some different way of having church. First of all, they can attend a conservative evangelical church and just try to be influenced for good, even if the rest in the church do not uphold Kingdom teachings. Not everybody can move right away, and they might just need to do something like that. He says, "If you're a mature Christian, you could consider helping to organize a small fellowship of folks who are interested in Kingdom teaching." And then the third thing is what he did, which is to join an Anabaptist or a similar type fellowship.

So I would like to expand on his last suggestion and describe three options under that. If you want a stable church fellowship and want to stay with the church long term, join a church that is part of a conference or a fellowship on the more conservative end of the spectrum, one that's demonstrated little transition over the decades. Now, you might have to give up a lot of freedoms and put up with some unhandy and really difficult cultural expectations, and you may be limited in the ways that you can serve the Kingdom of God, but at least you're part of something that will likely be at a similar place 50 years from now. A second option is if you want a church that has high moral and spiritual standards, yet one that allows more room than the more conservative ones to fulfill their calling in the Kingdom of God, then you're probably going to end up in a church that's not quite as stable.

You'll need to be prepared to keep changing churches if the church you're a part of eventually heads in a direction that isn't good. Now, if you change churches too often, your children may prefer to stay at one church when they grow up, which is very understandable, but this could end up being a spiritual detriment for them or their posterity. So you don't want to change too often, but you have to be prepared to do that sometimes if the church goes in a direction that is not God-honoring. The third option is if you want all your freedoms and you don't want to change churches periodically, then you can plug into a less conservative church and be the person you want others to be.

And then when the church drifts in an unhealthy direction, you just stay there and keep on being a good example. People have done that. I can't recommend this option for a family, but sometimes joining a more disciplined church is not an option for one reason or another. And God does give people grace to be role models for Christ in less than ideal situations. And so this is an option sometimes. So keep in mind that doing anything with a wrong spirit can have a disastrous effect on your family, no matter what church you're in. So your attitude is very important for yourself, your children, and your friends. So here's some advice from Dan Ziegler, who, along with his wife, Wendy, found their way into the plain Anabaptist world.

He says, number one, look for churches that have a track record of welcoming people from non-plain backgrounds. Not all plain churches are the same. So find one that is good, one that is going to be welcoming. His second one is give yourself and the group plenty of time to get to know each other.

By choosing to be a part of a plain group, you're stepping into not just a set of beliefs, but a faith-based, high-expectation culture that is likely very different than what you've grown up with. This is probably what drew you in the first place, but understand one does not just flip a switch and know everything right away.

Most of the folks that you'll fellowship with have grown up in this context, and they don't think twice about much of what they do. Things that you have to deliberately and sometimes self-consciously decide to do are second nature to them. Embrace your role as an outsider. Come to terms with the fact that you're not, nor will you ever be, a Yoder or a Miller or a Friesen or a Stallspiece. And that's okay.

Jesus doesn't care about surnames. Believe it or not, many conservative Anabaptist churches who are more open-minded long to find a way to welcome seekers into their midst. And so Dan says they just want to do so without losing what is important to them. They recognize that seekers bring in new conviction, passion for things that have become commonplace for them. They realize that seekers bring in fresh perspective, and ultimately that Jesus calls us to make disciples of all nations. Fourthly, he says, understand that plain folks care deeply about the stability of the church and the influences on their youth. It's not about you personally. They are concerned about the world and its influences, and experience has taught them that sometimes seekers may stir the pot and raise questions in ways that might be unhealthy for the church, especially for the young people.

And he says, respect that. You may share the same concern someday. Fifthly, he says, don't try to reform the church to your expectations. Sometimes seekers join a plain church, he says, that's close to their ideals, but it's not quite there. So they try to agitate and push to fix it because plain folks place a high value on glosson height, which means surrenderedness to Christ and His church. He says, before you speak to what the group is not, you need to show a strong willingness to give yourself to what is. His sixth point is serve the church in a mission. For a seeker coming into a plain community, especially after they've become established a bit in the group, he says, spending time or even a few years serving the church through mission is a great choice.

This may be through short-term missions, could be through disaster relief, some service in foreign missions. Service, he says, is one of the core Anabaptist principles, and the mission context is a great leveler where the most important things matter and much of the cultural baggage that keeps us apart falls away. So that may be a place to really get plugged in. And then his seventh point is, remember, it should ultimately be about Jesus and His kingdom. This is the most important thing.

Our motivation should be about obedience to Christ and service for His kingdom. This is a holy calling for all who choose to follow Him. He says it's in Christ that we find our motivation, our courage, our affirmation, our purpose. Anything else, lifestyle, pet doctrines, personal acceptance, culture, clothing styles, canning beans, whatever, may be important, but it's not the main thing. So if you're a seeker and are thinking about joining an Anabaptist church, ask lots of good questions. And I wish the grace of God on any of you who are embarking on this journey. Well, thank you so much, Ernest, for joining us, for sharing these perspectives. This is very helpful. I think you gave our audience a lot to think about.

So thank you. I appreciate it.