Is "Mennonite" a Faith Culture or Ethnic Culture? — Samantha Trenkamp Bender — Ep. 208

The Anabaptist movement began and continues to have high ideals. People are often attracted to these high ideals, but what are some of the challenges and opportunities that come along with that?

Samantha, welcome back to the Anabaptist Perspectives podcast. It's been a long time since we've done this. Yeah. Wow. So a few things have changed, but maybe for a little bit of context for our listeners, we interviewed you like, I don't know, 2018 or something like that, way back, you sharing your testimony of joining the Anabaptist Church. And that is our most watched and listened to episode, interestingly enough. For whatever reason. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Your story really struck a chord with people. And in that process, we've had a number of conversations and different ones on the team about some of the things that that has brought up and questions about what it means when someone joins the Anabaptist movement and the challenges that surround that.

So this episode, we'll jump into that, and I'm really looking forward to hearing what you have to share. So without further ado, I think I'll just go for the first question, and let's see what we have here. So as one who joined the Mennonite Church, and you didn't originally grow up in the Anabaptist movement, what are some of the biggest challenges? And I'm thinking like cultural stimulation that you encountered in that process. I think I might answer it a little more generally, just from observations I've seen. But ultimately, I think it would be good for people to recognize that it's going to be, if you're coming in as like a family, it's going to be easier for young people to assimilate into, I'm going to use the word Mennonite probably more than Anabaptist, because Anabaptist is really broad in my experience as Mennonite.

But it's going to be easier to assimilate into an Anabaptist culture as a young person, just because they're more adaptable and they just tend to assimilate easier. Like any time you take a family to another culture, like foreign missionaries or something, the kids typically learn the language faster, they make friends quicker, because kids just adapt better. And so like older single people, couples coming in on their own, whatever, like generally adults are going to have a harder time assimilating because we tend to get more set in our ways and things are just harder to adjust to than it is for young people. And the younger people are also going to have more opportunities to integrate through, like if you put them in church school or if they go to volunteer service or Bible schools or youth group, like all those things where they have opportunities to interact with the community on a relationship level, whereas adults have to work a little harder because there aren't as many things like that set up unless you get intentionally involved with like sewing circle or like men's groups, like those kinds of things.

So I think it's good to recognize for the grown-ups that they probably are going to have to put in more relational work than the young people will. Just out of curiosity, what age would have you been when you all joined? I think I was about 14. Okay. So that's a really interesting point you make, because I'm guessing in the teens, early 20 years, there's a lot more of those options, I guess, with like youth group and Bible school and all of that. Did you see that in your own experience versus, you know, say, if you would have joined as an adult? Yeah. It's like you can kind of grow into it. So like my parents would have had a harder time assimilating than us kids, just because that's the nature of children.

Like we just adapt and are just, yeah, we do that more easily than grown-ups do. Yeah. And so I guess to not be frustrated by that process and to recognize it may just take a while. Yeah. I think that's, I think back to this idea of ideals, you know, the Anabaptist movement does definitely have some ideals. And it can be like, well, these are the ideals. It'll be great. But the cultural element is what you're kind of getting at. Like the cultural element can just be really hard just for all the practical reasons of, I don't know, not quite cross-cultural interactions, but almost like it almost feels like it in some ways. Like does that resonate at all with your experience?

Like I've heard other people describe it like that. Yeah. The assimilation process is just like, this culture is just different. Right. So I guess an example I thought of is how, so like we're all Americans, but if you think about like Chicago or New Orleans, LA, New York, like they're all big American cities, but you can't go from one to the other and expect it to be the same because they have different historical backgrounds, different local economies, different ethnic diversity. Like they are all big American cities, but they are all culturally different from each other. And so like it's the same across churches and even our Anabaptist churches. There's like subcultures within subcultures. And like so you have to just kind of get to know people for who they are, not basing your expectations of them on generalized stereotypes.

Like you can't expect every Mennonite church to be like every other Mennonite church. And I guess an example I thought of, so where I'm living now in the Midwest, we have a fairly large Amish community, but it's somewhat different than others because in our community, if you decide to leave the Amish church, they're okay with that. It's still not an easy thing, and there's still struggles with that relationally, whatever. But they are okay if people choose to leave if they join at some kind of Anabaptist flavor church, even if it's liberal. So I don't know if they actually practice shunning or not, like if you would join a Catholic church or a Baptist church, like something not Anabaptist.

But they have a lot more grace than some other communities would, where if you leave, you're just shunned. And so yeah, I think it's really important when you're looking at joining any kind of Anabaptist church to not go in with generalizations of like, oh, I've heard about this, so they must be just like that, because they're probably not. Like you have to get to know the church for who they are, because they're going to have their own subculture as Anabaptists because of where they're located or what their background is, and giving people grace to get to know them.

So there's a lot of layers and cultural complexities or just, I don't know, whenever you get a lot of people together, it gets complicated. And I guess that's the experience with every church, which makes me think of, okay, you know, on this, what we do here at Anabaptist Perspectives, we regularly hear from people from other church backgrounds for various reasons. Sometimes they have questions or sometimes they're like, hey, I want to be an Anabaptist or hey, I really appreciate what you're doing here, even though I'm from a different church tradition.

But one thing I've noticed is, okay, whether it's Catholic or evangelical or, you know, Pentecostal or Protestant or, you know, take your pick of all the slices of Christians out there, those that try to join or join the Anabaptist movement or a Mennonite church, say, they come in with some pretty high ideals of like, this is, you know, whatever. They joined for a reason, you know, because they see something there that they want. Can you talk to some of those high ideals that people may have from the outside coming in?

Yeah. So one thing I have definitely seen over the years, specifically in a certain period of my life when we were in a fairly conservative community for a couple of years, we weren't part of that, but we were living in it, is we'll just call them the English, like non-Anabaptist background people had almost put the local conservative people, which would have been Amish Mennonite, but this can happen in like larger Amish communities or whatever, and they just basically make idols out of them. They always speak well of them, which is good, but I'm not just talking character trait. Like they look at their lives and they just see that it's just, it just looks so perfect because they're living these quiet, simple lives, and it's so attractive and so countercultural and it's just beautiful.

And it's like, you know, we want to just, you know, ride horse and buggy. It looks so quiet and just like all these things that people are dissatisfied with their own lives because maybe they're too busy or like too involved with the world, whatever. And so they look at, I'm going to use Amish for an example because that's a drastic cultural difference.

But they look at that and they're like, oh, I could be Amish. And inside I would just be like, no.

I've had a couple of different people over the years be like, well, I could be Amish. And it's like, my response to them is like, you could probably do the lifestyle, but living in their communities is a whole nother story. Like it gets complicated and community is hard. It's a blessing, but you got to work for it. And in our very individualistic American society, having to work together as a group, especially in a religious setting, just doesn't jive. Like it's hard.

Yeah, there was someone from the Bruderhof was talking about community one time and he was like, you know, in the Bible says to forgive one another and it's in the context of brotherhood. He's like, that means things will happen where we have to forgive each other. It means we're not always going to do things right. And so it's like, if yeah, if you want to look at being Amish, Mennonite, whatever, like you have to be ready not just for the lifestyle and the external changes, but the community life and the accountability that that will bring.

So it's really important to remember coming into an Anabaptist community, not just Amish now, but like broader Anabaptist, that it's like, yeah, there's things about it that I want to be attractive, preferably based on scriptural basis things, but I know the externals are also attractive because they're countercultural and there's something appealing about that. And that's not bad. But it's really important for, I guess we're calling them seekers, non-Anabaptist background people, when they're coming in to remember that they are coming into a community of fallen people. So like it doesn't matter what Christian community you go into, whatever they call themselves, they're all still fallen people. And like as Anabaptists, it's like, yes, we do value the external expressions of obedience and orderliness and cleanliness and things like that, like our well-kept homes and our well-kept yards and like all these things.

Like we value those things because it's an expression of our internal faith, but we are still fallen people redeemed by the blood, but we are still in the same spiritual warfare as every other Christian where we have to battle against temptation and walking in love when sometimes we walk out of pride and all these things that just make us human. So yeah, that's one of my biggest pet peeves is when people come into Anabaptist churches with these idolized ideals about them and it's like, I'm glad you're attracted to it, but don't expect us to have it all together because we don't. We're still people and we're still going to make mistakes. And if you're going to come into a close-knit community, you have to be willing to work through those things and give people lots of grace and be humble yourself.

So when you join an Anabaptist church, like we will welcome you, hopefully. I've heard stories, but you know, we'll welcome you, but yeah, don't expect us to have everything all tidy and neat. Our children misbehave, like we have dirty dishes and all these things, but yeah, it's more about coming, choosing to come alongside with us and walking a journey of redemption together, not just making things look good. Because we don't, like we value the externals, but we don't do those to hide the inside.

We don't try to look good on the outside to hide what's going on inside. That's why we live in community and we talk about things most of the time because we're still fallen people and it can be hard to admit our problems. But yeah, I think that would be one of my biggest pet peeves is we are just, we are still people.

And it's just hard when you get a lot of people trying to do this thing called church together. You're just going to, there's a lot of dynamics there no matter how you slice it because humans are complicated, right? And yeah, I think I've seen, yeah, what you're saying there, whether it's a sense of, wow, you guys must have it all figured out. It's like, I don't think that's really true, you know? I mean, you know, yeah, that's really good. And so that actually goes along really well with the next question I had, which is, you know, some have made this observation and I personally have noticed this as well, that you have all these people that join or want to join the Anabaptist church and yeah, maybe they'll attend a Mennonite church for a few years, they'll get involved and then they just kind of leave.

They just kind of go back to another church and that's that. They don't actually stay. And that concerns me and I'd be really curious what you have to say about that. So thinking about that one, I thought of four key things that I've heard over the years from different people, just talking to people about reasons they would have left. One of them that I heard word for word twice from two different people, from two different communities who are both non-Anabaptist background. One would have been a Hispanic fella and the other would have been, we'll just say a white person, a typical English person.

But they both said, and I think these were at more conservative churches, if that makes a difference, but they both had been attending and had been told by a fellow Mennonite background church member, you will never be a real Mennonite. And they did not say it, I don't, I mean, I wasn't there, but I don't believe it was said unkindly, but in that person's mind, they were thinking bloodlines because Anabaptists are very like bloodlines, genetics, like who are your people? Because they can trace that, which is a blessing, but that is a very unfortunate thing to say to a seeker because then they're like, well, I'm never going to fit in because I'm never going to be a real Mennonite.

So they get discouraged and then they just tap out because they're like, well, I can't be like you. If there's one thing that I would love to be understood by seekers and Mennonite back or Anabaptist background people alike, I think it's really, really important for us to remember that Anabaptism is first and foremost a faith culture and not an ethnic culture. The fact that Anabaptist background people can trace their roots back for generations is a huge blessing and it's just proof of the faithfulness of the word of God as it's passed on to generations. That's a good thing. So we should cherish that and see that as a blessing, but it doesn't matter what your Christian orientation is, whether you know evangelical, Pentecostal, you know, whatever.

Just because you're born into that does not make you so. We have to choose that for ourself. So just because you're born into a conservative Mennonite family and you cover and wear the cape dress and like all these external things, you are not an Anabaptist just because you are born into that family. You have to choose that for yourself.

So something that different people have told me over the years are like, oh, you know, it's such a blessing for you to not be from an Anabaptist background or Mennonite background family because you had to do your own research and study and like choose to believe this based on scripture alone. And I'm like, so that shouldn't be any different for you. Like, I mean, you may be raised with that knowledge in a way that I maybe wasn't, but your decisions to do it should be the same basis, not just because it's handed down to you, but because you've chosen to believe it because scripture says so and you believe it to be true, not just because someone hands it to you.

That's, that's a, I could see that being a very easy thing to say for someone to say that and not really think about, oh yeah, like that should be all of us instead of it just being this kind of, that gives the impression that this is just like a cultural thing that we're just kind of inherit and you just kind of just by default. That goes back to that original comment you said that these two people had heard, you'll never be, what it was, you'll never be a real Mennonite or something like that. You know, that's, wow, that's, that's pretty intense. Like that shows an underlying bias there, you know, that makes me very uncomfortable, I guess.

Right. It is kind of funny though because whenever I hear something like that or whatever, I just kind of laugh because I'll talk to Mennonite people sometime and I'm like, well, really, I'm more of an Anabaptist than you are because I'm Catholic baptized or Catholic background, twice baptized. So technically, historically, I'm a true Anabaptist.

Yes, because the definition of the word, just to go back to that historically was someone who's been rebaptized. Right. But like, like because they were coming from the Catholic, it's very true. Yes. That's fantastic. And thinking about Anabaptism being a faith culture and not an ethnic culture, like I've already said, like the passing of faith down through generations and it being accepted by those future generations is just proof of the faithfulness of the word of God and like it's a beautiful thing. It's a good thing. We should be thankful for that.

But the early Anabaptists didn't give their lives so we could get stuck on external things. They died so we could be faithful to the truth of scripture, which after you get past our external things for Anabaptists, that comes down to our key things that make us truly different to a lot. And I'm not bashing other Christian faiths, but something that makes the things that make Anabaptism really different isn't our external things. It's our stances on divorce and remarriage and our stances on non-resistance and like all these really countercultural things. And those should be more of our basis than, you know, our black cars or our cape dresses or, you know, our homemade cinnamon rolls or owning our own business.

Like all those things are not bad, but those shouldn't be the core of our identity. It should be the things of scripture. Something else that can be really, I don't know, discouraging, but it would kind of like combine discouragement and disillusionment. So when seekers come in, we are coming in with a fresh perspective because we didn't grow up in it. And so we're getting more of an objective view as we are coming in to the way things are done. And I want to start out by saying like the way that things are done isn't necessarily bad. Like I don't want to be bashing our Anabaptist people, but it is extremely important that we know why we do what we do, even if it has an obscure historical background that isn't actually relevant anymore.

Like give us some kind of answer for why you do what you do. I was the one example I was thinking of was just like, you know, some communities that don't wear buttons, they do like hook and eye or they'll do, you know, pins for closures of their clothes. They won't use buttons. And people looking in are like, that's really odd, like and really unnecessary. Why do they do that? And it's like from what I have heard, it can date back to like Civil War times when you had your generals and stuff in the war wearing these bright shiny brass buttons and like it identified them as being part of the war. And so at that time, the conservative people are like, well, we're just not going to wear buttons because we don't want to identify with the military.

That has a reason, but if you just say we do it because that's the way we've always done it, that's not a good excuse. That's fascinating. I never knew that actually. I've always kind of wondered. That's what I've been told. So I was at least given a reason.

Yeah, but like that's way better than saying we've just always done it this way because you can be like, well, now hold on. That can't factually be true. Like you couldn't have always like done it. Like how far do you want to go back? Because I'm pretty sure, you know, the first century church probably wouldn't have dressed that way. Like I'm right again, I don't want to be bashing, but that is a very common thing. A lot of this is just kind of how we've always done it. It was probably not always always. It started somewhere. Right. That's really interesting. Okay. I might have learned something new. I might want to look into that a little bit more.

Yeah. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. But something, and again, like I don't want to focus on the externals, but our externals are an expression of obedience to scripture. So I'm going to use the head coverage as an example. I've had a number of different ladies who've been to different churches just because they've moved around or were trying to find a place to church, place to settle or whatever. And they would ask someone, why do you cover? And they don't know. They just always have. And she's like, well, I know what I do, so why don't they when it's so much a part of who they are? And then it's a little confusing sometimes. It's like, so you don't know why you do this, but I do.

It's like the whole thing of coming back to not just being born into it, but actually having scriptural backing for yourself personally. But yeah, there's just been so many times when people are like, well, they don't know why they do what they do. And even just, I know my husband and I have talked about so many times of just there, I don't know if it's still happening, but there have been waves of young people leaving Mennonite churches because they don't know why they do what they do. It's just because we've always done it this way. And it's so easy to be like, well, this other denomination doesn't do all these extra things and they're still good Christians.

So why would I stay here where there's so many demands? I can go somewhere else. And so even for, you know, our own Mennonite young people, it's really, really important to know why we do what we do, even if it's obscure. We have to have some reason for it. And like a lot of us have think of like the buttons or something like that. A lot of that stays because of the principle of being countercultural. And that's where it started. So it just stayed. I'm okay with that. There's a good reason and there's a principle behind it. But if you just tell a seeker, well, I don't know, or just because we do, it's like it starts to feel pretty empty because then they don't have a good reason to commit to something like that.

And that's a lot of external things, but it comes back to our internal of knowing, like having those convictions, knowing why we do what we do. So it's really, really important to be consistent with what we're doing externally to match up with our internals.

That's really good. Yeah. Every culture has things that they do just because, like not just Christian cultures, but international cultures, ethnic cultures. Like there's things that they do just because the way we greet each other, the way we, you know, do our homes, the way we cook our food, and like all those things are not bad in themselves, even if we don't have a reason for them, but there really should be some knowledge of what makes us who we are.

Otherwise, we don't know who we are. Yeah. But the other, the last one would be distance, which I know we've had a lot of people coming into Anabaptist perspective saying, you know, I really like what I'm hearing and I believe this, but I have no church.

And like genuinely, that is a really hard one for seekers because it is easier to maintain our values and our belief system when we have support. So it is hard. And there were different seasons of my life where, because of where we lived or like job situations where we ended up, that we didn't have a church close by or we didn't have one close by that we were okay with joining. Maybe they were like super conservative and we just weren't okay with that or too far away or whatever it was.

So that I know that's definitely a reality for a lot of people, a lot of seekers. And I guess my encouragement for that would just be coming right back to what we've been talking about of how our faith needs to be grounded on the word of God and on the strength of God. And even if that means you have nothing else and to be able to stand for that.

So yeah, like just thinking about something like divorce and remarriage, if you're in a community where every other church is okay with that, are you going to be willing to be that person that says no, even if there's no one standing with you and being willing to just stand on the strength of God alone? But I know the blessing of community and I know how hard it is without, but we have to be, we have to recognize that our strength comes from God. We're made for fellowship, but if we don't have that, He is sufficient.

So you're making a case or a pretty, yeah, a good case for when you come back to what does scripture say go with these are the things that we believe and this is how we choose to live and there's a good reason for it as Peter talks about a reason for the hope that's in you.

So what do you do? And I know you've had some interaction with some people in a situation like this where maybe it's a younger person still living at home with their parents. They want to live this this way, but maybe the parents or the area they're living in is not conducive to that at all. That's a real challenge, obviously. How do you encourage someone like that? What do we do in a situation like that? Or how do we help someone like that?

The few people that randomly come across like that, the two biggest pieces of advice I would have for that is to walk in humility and to speak the truth in love. Because it not even just for young people, but people coming into a more conservative setting can start to feel good about themselves. Like I'm doing things right and y'all are wrong. And like I'm making these drastic changes. I'm being countercultural and y'all aren't following along. Like I know what scripture says. And so I think there needs to be grace there when we're being different, but not to be different just for different sake. Like to have that reason, like I said.

But so I guess an example that I would have is when I started making changes and like people should see the internal, but I'm thinking right now of the external, just like, you know, starting to wear the covering and the cape dress, things that identified me externally with a certain group of people. I found out a couple of years later that my great grandma was just like really concerned about this and she was really worried about me because she, we had had some kind of distant relative who joined a genuine cult and it was not a good situation. And so when she saw like this external identification happening, she was like, okay, is this another one?

Like she was really worried. Oh, that's intense. So I think it's really, really important that as we are making these changes, when we just, we stay humble about it and not just carry this like, you know, I'm being a good person, I'm doing things right kind of attitude. We need to walk in humility and recognize that scripture can sometimes be cut and dry, but also it's like not everyone's going to see things the same way. It's just the way it is.

But also to be open in communicating with people. Like if people ask you questions or if you start making drastic changes to be like, hey, this is why I'm doing this and just having lots of good open communication, which always helps relationships.

Even if people aren't understanding or supportive or if they are, like yeah, to just give a lot of grace and being open about, open in a humble, kind way about why you're doing what you're doing and not doing it in a way that makes the other person feel like, well, they're just wrong, but just sharing it.

So in the previous episode we had done with you, you shared your personal story of joining the Anabaptist movement and so forth. Now talk about the interaction between your personal relationship with God and trying to, you know, this is how I want to choose to live and doing that in a group setting, basically like in the Anabaptist community where one's relationship with God is not just a personal thing, but also a matter of group interest. So just I guess, yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to phrase that most accurately, but I think that's a good way of saying it. Did those ever feel at odds? I don't know, just speak into that a little.

Ultimately, I think this question comes down to just being faithful to the word of God and walking in humility and getting to the grit of really what is the most important. So if there is a major theological conflict you have with the Anabaptist church or in or looking at joining, like definitely wrestle through that. That's important. But if it's a minor thing, I think we need to be more, more willing to be like, what am I willing to sacrifice for the sake of the group if this is the group that I am choosing to be a part of and to throw in my lot, so to speak. Like because a lot of the, I don't know, at least for me, a lot of the external things just don't matter to me that much.

I'm like, if my whole church decides to wear cape dresses, which I wear out of personal preference, I know why I do it, not just because, but it's like if that's what my church that I'm going to and choose to go to decides to do, I'm okay with doing it because that's not a major theological conflict for me. It's just a way that they have chosen to express the principle of modesty. I'm okay with that. Some people might have to wrestle with that more than I did. And I recognize that. But there was a season as a teen when the only Anabaptist church close by was an Amish Mennonite church that was quite conservative. Like the bishop or pastor, whoever had to approve the tires on your car and like they only wore snap closures.

They didn't, one lady I talked to, they were getting ready to move to a different community, helped take care of an elderly relative. And I just had to laugh because she's like, girls, they wear zippers. It's like just scandalous. And we just laughed. We're like, there are far bigger problems.

Yeah. So that just cracked me up. But it was important to her because she had been taught, you know, this is how we do things. That was just super funny. But anyways, but that was a time when it's like, okay, this is the only church we have. I want to be part of an Anabaptist church, but they were just really too strict for me. There were things that I just kind of struggled with. Like I can enjoy playing piano. They didn't allow instruments even in the home. And that was, I mean, that's a minor thing, but it was something I had to really think through. Like is that really something that I'm willing to sacrifice or not?

And we ultimately ended up moving two years later. So I didn't really have to make that decision then, but I had ultimately decided I'm probably not okay with going there. I just don't think I'd be a good fit for that. And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're a bad Anabaptist if you don't fit in. Like it's okay. Like there's a number of different branches of Anabaptism or different communities I've heard about where I would not be okay attending, even if that was the only one there, because I have issues with how their theology operates or how they do church authority or whatever it is.

But ultimately, living in community, as far as your personal relationship with God, as well as like it being a group interest thing, living in community requires more personal responsibility, not less, because it's so integrated and so involved. Each person in a group or not is responsible for their own walk with the Lord. Nobody can believe for you. And so you are still responsible for your personal walk with the Lord, your personal devotional time, like how you express your faith through your works, like all these things, things you get involved in through service, whatever it may be. But being in a group of believers that is caring and involved with each other requires greater responsibility and a greater vulnerability and humility because you're going to have people asking you genuinely, how are you doing?

Or like, yeah, oh, you know, I see you might be struggling with this. How can we help? And you can either be threatened by that involvement or embrace it as an opportunity to grow. In a healthy church community, your individual walk with the Lord is important because as we are each individually walking with the Lord, the group as a whole can walk closer with the Lord. So we can work, we have to operate on a personal level, but then as a group, we are walking together and that makes our loads lighter. And just, yeah, why wouldn't we want to come alongside our brothers and sisters and grow closer to the Lord together and have that support and have that fellowship?

So you've shared that this has been, this has been a fascinating discussion. So you've shared a lot of your personal journey and then some of these cultural things, the challenges of assimilating into a Mennonite church or the broader Anabaptist movement or however you want to frame it.

And as I mentioned earlier, you know, we often have people leaving comments or emailing us and saying, hey, what you are presenting here on the podcast is something I'm really interested in. I want to live more like this. I want to learn about this more.

So what is something you can leave those people who are seeking or wanting to learn more and more want to live more like this? What's some encouragement you can leave with them as we bring this episode to a close?

We've only had time to touch on just some of the things I would love to talk about, but the most important takeaway, first of all, that I would have for people is to just hold fast to Jesus and hold fast to the word of God because that's what's going to last. That's what's going to get us through anything. So that's super important. I just really wanted to impress that in this episode.

But that means you have to be, it sounds like your own strength, but with God's strength, you have to be willing to stand fast to what you know is true, even if you don't have a church, even if there's no one coming alongside you, even if you stand alone.

And I think some of the best piece of advice I ever heard from an Anabaptist man, I was at a conference in PA and it was the end of the conference and they were doing like Q&A stuff. And this man stood up, he was a seeker from Oregon, and he's like, I have packed up everything and I have come here because I want to be Anabaptist and I want to join an Anabaptist church. Basically, point me in the right direction. And this Anabaptist man stood up and he's like, I affirm your desire and I bless you in that, but he's like, my advice to you would be to go home.

And that wasn't said unkindly, and I pretty much guarantee you there was more dialogue with him after the group session, but he encouraged him to go home and build community right where he was instead of going to look for it. So there's kind of a kind of a mix there because like I know the blessing of being in fellowship and the difficulty of not, but his idea was one that has stuck with me and just I really have loved his challenge because it's the idea of growing faith right under your feet. Like don't go looking for something. If God has given you, given you something, share it and build right where you are, even if that's in a non-Anabaptist church.

And that doesn't mean in a controversial or conflicting way, but like we'll use non-resistance again as an example because I'd rather use something bigger like that than like something like the head covering. But just as an example, we'll use non-resistance. And let's say that's something you are convicted of and just like, you know, we don't go to war and we're not violent towards people and that comes through in things like anger and stuff as well, not just physical violence. And you're in a church community that is totally okay with divorce and remarriage. Are you going to be willing to build community right there and be the person that stands up and say no?

And you're not going to be popular and it's not going to be easy, but you can still grow faith and grow love in that community right where you are. It's not easy, but I know a couple of different people that have just really challenged me in that. A couple of ladies from a community where there aren't any conservative Mennonite churches, really that they're comfortable with, well, they aren't really conservative Mennonite, but they don't really have a church to attend. So they go to an unaffiliated Methodist church and it's somewhat conservative and they're content there. Like they feel called to that area. That's the church they've decided to join with no other options. And they, I would say they're thriving there.

They're doing well. They're loving well there and getting involved. And they are very Mennonite. And just another couple I know who've been in the same area for 60 plus years and they are serving what we would call hillbillies and they're thriving there. And I think the best thing that I have heard that couple tell me is just to love people.

It's like ultimately the most important thing is Jesus. And in their community, they realized that a Mennonite church just was not going to go, but they still felt called there. And so they've stayed Mennonite, but they probably will not be a Mennonite church there, but they just love the people and give them Jesus.

And so there's a way we can be Anabaptist and be different and still live in community with non-Anabaptist people. And it's not going to be easy, but yeah, I just loved his challenge. And so that's probably the challenge I would give to people is to just stay faithful to the word of God and to love people well and grow faith where you are. If you can be part of a community, like it is a blessing. It is really nice to have people who believe like you do, but then the temptation with that is to stay in your bubble and just stay with people like you.

So there's pros and cons with both, but that's probably would be my biggest takeaway. It's just being faithful to the word of God with or without people encourage you along in that.

Well, Samantha, thank you so much for coming on the podcast again and sharing more of your story and some of the things you've learned along the way and specifically the challenges. I think it's important that we have episodes like this to where it doesn't come across. We have everything perfect and figured out because we are human and we need each other. We need Jesus. We need community to thrive and grow together. So thank you for taking the time to share today. You're welcome.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode with Samantha. If you found this interesting, you'll enjoy listening to her testimony, which is linked down below. Of course, you can find all the content we've made over on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.