From Amish Roots: How the Conservative Mennonite Conference Began | Mahlon Girod (Part 1)

Lesson Transcript

Guide me for the great Jehovah, pilgrim through this barren land. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this talk on Hope for Wandering Amish. Here at Hope for Wandering Amish, our burden is to help those that are seeking to find the Lord Jesus, to live a life of faithfulness to Him, and to see generational faithfulness. And as part of that, to find a biblical church where they can exercise the, you know, New Testament Christianity.

Well, this morning we have Maelin Durod on from Gravel Switch, Kentucky, at Bethel Christian Fellowship. Him and his wife and 4 children are there. I look forward to seeing what Brother Maelin has to share. So, um, I think we'll have a prayer and we'll move right into it. Heavenly Father, great is Your faithfulness. You are high and holy, and we come before You this morning to— to ask for Your blessing on this talk.

Bless Brother Maelin, give him the unction from on high to speak words of truth, and to dig into this history lesson, and help us to not repeat mistakes that others have made, and to— to learn from others' faithfulness. Just guide us all this morning. Help the technology to work out, and may we be able to connect hearts and minds. And we invite Your Spirit to be in our midst, be in our hearts, and guide us in all truth. In the precious name of Jesus, amen. All right, Brother Maelin, it's yours. Okay, good morning.

Um, I'm, uh, just thankful to be here. I greet you all in Jesus' name. I'm, uh, also want to say, I think we'll open it up— I believe we understand we'll open it up for Q&A right after my time here. So, so this morning, um, I want to share some history of the Conservative Mennonite Conference. And, um, uh, this would be part 1 of my topic, and then possibly a month from now we'd be sharing part 2.

And so this morning it would be a little more on the history of the conference, whereas, um, next time it would be a little more on what we can— might learn from, from, uh, from that history. So, so by way of introduction, I don't, uh— I think this may— might be a little negative, um, towards, uh, about some of that history. And I don't want to bash anyone. It's not my intention to be negative. So I just want to say that right off. It's not my intention. I don't have any ill feelings toward anyone.

But it's going to be a little negative at times. Also, I'm going to mostly read from my notes. Um, I have pretty extensive notes on this topic. I can't remember everything myself, so I'm going to read some— a lot from my notes. So, first off, um, why are we talking about CMC, or Conservative Mennonite Conference? Um, there's— we're a little— most of you all probably haven't heard about this conference. Hardly most of you. I mean, you all don't even know who they are.

But the fact is that in many Amish churches, this conference was divided from the Amish, probably about 100 years ago. And so you have got Holmes County, Somerset County, Pennsylvania, Lancaster, the Big Valley, Northern Indiana, Arthur, Illinois, Geogi County, Ohio, Bern, Indiana, Allen County, Indiana, Kelowna, Iowa, and Dover, Delaware. And those are only a few of the churches that had a, a major— or at least a split-off back in the day, and, and, and that ended up joining the Conservative Mennonite Conference.

I grew up hearing about the Conservatives, as we call them, from Kelowna, Iowa. My mom had a bunch of relatives there. And we would go there and visit them, uh, visit relatives there. And they, you know, the older ladies, uh, cousins to my mother, they had just these little, little caps on. And, and, uh, that's kind of the remembrance I have of CMC. So eventually I found out how the conference started and the reasons they split off from the Amish.

Those reasons were actually fairly similar to, to some of the reasons I left, um, about 12 years ago, the Amish. And so— but now the conference today is not where I want to go. And so the question is this: can I expect my descendants to end up at a different place than theirs did? So I think we need to try to understand what went wrong. And that's my desire. That's, um, that's kind of my, my goal, is to understand: is there some things we can understand what happened there? So I have an outline here.

First, I want to— my first, uh, point is: who is CMC? Second point is: beginnings of CMC. Third point is: the Amish division of 1895. The fourth point is: CMC today. And the fifth point is— or just, uh, go over five questions and resolutions of the first conference of 1910. Okay. I think that's all we're going to probably end up covering today. So, point number 1: who is CMC? Well, they're— they're of Amish background, who dropped the name Amish. Um, they dropped the name.

They used to be called Conservative Amish Mennonite Conference, and they dropped that name in 19— or in 1954, yes. The conference first formed in 1910. They were a group of Amish that wanted some specific changes, like Sunday school, meeting houses, openness to the use of English language, and mission work. That's five different things right there: Sunday school, meeting houses, English language, and mission work.

Um, and because the Amish, for the most part, did not have, um, Sunday school, meeting houses, much mission activity at all. Okay, so some background on, uh, history before CMC. In the mid to late 1800s, quite a number of progressive, spiritually minded Amish left the Amish and started Amish Mennonite conferences. They formed three main conferences. Uh, number 1 was Indiana, Michigan Amish Mennonite Conference in 1888. Number 2 was a Western Amish Mennonite Conference in 1890.

Number 3 was Eastern Amish Mennonite Conference in 1893. These conferences all merged with Mennonite conferences by 1925. So by 1925, these conferences were part of either General Conference, probably, or Old Mennonite. And so today, they're not— none of those conferences exist. The Amish Mennonite conferences started in the late 1800s. So, um, but that— that happened by— a lot of— a lot of churches had, had split-offs, uh, before CMC started. Okay. So here's a quote.

I have two books that I— that I've gotten most of my history from. Uh, the first one here is History of the Conservative Mennonite Conference. I should try to share that. Um, let me see. I guess you can see this. Yeah, okay. You can see that book. Um, uh, it's not much to see. It's just History of the Conservative Mennonite Conference, a red book. And the next book is— uh, the first book was by Ivan J. Miller. This book here is, um, A History of the Amish, by Stephen M. Nolte.

Um, and I— and they have a lot of history, um, of, of all— of the Amish. Not just CMC, but they also have a little portion there on CMC. Okay. So I'm going to, uh, quote a— a paragraph out of the— the red book. The first one.

"During the time of the Third Amish— Third District Amish Mennonite Confer— the Three— I'm sorry, the Three District Amish Mennonite Conference, the one we just talked about, there were some scattered churches who were more ready for change in worship patterns, missions, and social service than those churches known as the Old Order Amish. On the other hand, they were more conservative in practice than the conference Amish Mennonite churches.

To identify these churches, the Mennonite Yearbook began listing them as conservative Amish Mennonite at the turn of the century. These conservative churches were identified by such practices as worshiping in meeting houses, Sunday schools, interest in social services, publication, and similar activities." Okay, so there's a lot of these churches that sort of become unaffiliated, um, by 1900, but they weren't as progressive minded as the Amish Mennonite conferences.

And so they just stayed unaffiliated, and then later on they joined— or they started the CMC, Conservative Conference. Okay. So here's another quote from History of the Amish book, talking about CMC churches.

"They were more pro— or they were progressive minded to a degree, adopted meeting houses, Sunday schools, and organized mission work, but often they retained German language, worship, conservative clothing standards, etc." So they were a little more conservative than the other Amish— uh, than the other conferences.

"In the first conference of 1910, they adopted the name Conservative Amish Mennonite Conference to be identified as more conservative than the other Amish Mennonite conferences." So why did CMC not join those conferences? The fact is, they were more conservative, um, minded, and were beginning to see how the other Amish Mennonite conference drifted quite rapidly. By early 1900, some of these other Mennonite conferences had already assimilated into mainline Mennonites. Here's a quote from History of the Amish book.

It says, "Both tradition-minded Amish Mennonites and progressive-thinking Old Orders found a middle ground in the Conservative Conference." So, um, they were— in some ways, I think they were sort of middle of the road. They were more conservative, and still they wanted things like Sunday school and openness to English, and, um, missions. But their use of German— by their use of German, it's obvious that they weren't exactly reactionary.

They were— they were not just trying to run from where they came from, from my understanding. They still were, you know, as long as German was a good option, they were willing to use it. Um, the option among the Old Orders for a church with good morals was— was quite slim at that point, the older Amish. Um, there was— okay, there was one church, Kelowna, Iowa. We'll talk about them a little later. They accepted Sunday school, um, early on, early 1900s, I think.

Um, but, but, uh, that was, like, the only Amish church that did. And so for the most part, the Amish, uh, there was a lot of, uh, need, spiritual need there. The New Order Amish division happened in, like, 1967. And that was over, I think, four things. They wanted to get away from bed courtship. They wanted to practice a holy kiss. Uh, they wanted, like, youth meetings or Bible studies, and also Sunday school.

And so back in early 1900s, there just wasn't a lot of option for spiritual, uh, those things— those things in the Amish. Okay, point number 2: beginnings of CMC. "In 1909, Bishop Solomon J. Swartzentrooper from Pidgin, Michigan, visited a number of churches that had no conference affiliation. He felt it would be good if these scattered churches would have some means of communication with each other. By now, most of them were worshiping in meeting houses. Some, some, some had Sunday schools.

Some had switched from slow tunes in church to standard tunes. Also, the English language was coming into use, and there was an emphasis towards missions." Okay. So there's, like, four things: meeting houses, Sunday schools, standard tunes, which is, like, fast tunes rather than the slow tunes. Also, English language and missions. Maybe that's five things. Those things were sort of in, uh— the older Amish were resisting it, but there was— there were, uh, people from them that wanted those things.

"These innovations tended to separate them from the older Amish, yet they had not established ties with the Amish Mennonite conferences." Because they were a bit more conservative minded, as we said. "Bishop Swartzentrooper suggested a conference. Since the Mennonite Yearbook had already listed them as Conservative Amish Mennonite, he suggested that name for the conference. So the first conference was held on November 24, 25— and 25 of 1910, at Pidgin, Michigan." That's where S.

J., or Solomon Swartzentrooper, was from. "It was attended by five ordained brethren." A pretty small meeting. Uh, Bishop Joshua King of Hartville, Ohio, Bishop J. L. Mast, and Minister Jonas Deoter of Bellville, Pennsylvania, the Locust Grove Mennonite Church. Bishop Solomon Swartzentrooper and Minister M. S. Zehr of Pidgin, Michigan. So basically, there were just three churches represented in that first meeting. Um, but Joshua King, by the way, he— he started the King Amish Church in Hartville, Ohio.

And he was only, like, five years with the conference. For some reason, he did not end up joining there, uh, or not stay with them. And so, um, some of you may have known— heard of the King Amish Churches. The New Order Amish sort of had their roots in that. They were an early church that, that did have Sunday school. So three churches were represented in that first meeting. Now I'm going to maybe screen share here a little bit and give you some pictures of these, um, some of these people.

See if I can figure this out. Okay, this was just my outline for, uh, the Conservative Mennonite Conference. Hundred Years of God Faithfulness. That was just off of their, uh, clip, a video. Okay. The first picture— let me see if I can do this. Okay. Um, I guess you can see that. Okay, the first picture is— is four early leaders of around 1910. We have Michael Zehr, John L. Mast, and Jonas Deoter. Those were three of the brothers that were at the first meeting. Uh, yes. John L.

Mast and Jonas Deoter were from Bellville, and Michael Zehr was from Pidgin, Michigan. There's also a picture there of C. W. Bender from Sideways, but he was not at the first meeting. He was at— he was there two years later. Okay. So that's just a picture of how they looked. They looked basically Amish. Now, I'm— I'm not going to do this right now, but at the end, I want to read the— the five— if I have time— the five questions and resolutions of, uh, that they made there in that first meeting in 1910. All right.

Let's get some background. Go to point number 3. Let's get some background on, uh, the Amish division that happened there in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, Garrick County, Maryland, in 1895. Let's get some background on that. Next. Joel Beechie. Joel Beechie was a grandson of Peter Beechie. Now, I'm going to say a lot of names here. I hope that doesn't, uh— you probably won't be able to follow everything, but there is— it's interesting if you can get it.

So Joel Beechie was bishop there in those churches, uh, at that time. Well, earlier— a little earlier. He was a grandson of Peter Beechie, where most— all I understand, all of the Amish and Mennonite Beechies and Peachies descend from. This Joel Beechie, he was bishop in that Amish church in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. Um, it was right on the state line. There was— they also had a church, a district in Maryland. Okay.

Um, Joel Beechie was bishop when they made two districts using the state line as a center in 1877. In 1879, he ordained Manassas Beechie to take charge of the Pennsylvania district. And then in 1887, he ordained Joel J. Miller to take his place, to take Joel Beechie's place. Joel was Benedict's grandson. Now, some of you know Benedict, and I was thinking of talking about him, but he was the first Amish bishop in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. A resident bishop. Okay. Early 1800s.

So this Joel Miller was Benedict's grandson. Okay. Now I'm going to give you a picture of Joel Miller. Or, yeah, Joel J. Miller. Now, this is a picture of, uh, I think 1915. It says, uh, after they had actually joined CMC, the Conservative Conference. Joel J. Miller is on the very left. It's not a real good picture, but probably the only picture we have. And I believe it's his family, an extended family there, grandchildren, probably. Joel J. Miller, far left. And that's actually the year he passed away, 1915.

But he was a— he was— he ended up being the bishop there, um, during the split. And we'll get to that here. Okay. Okay. So that's Joel J. Miller. By this time, when there were— by 18— let's say 1890, there were divisive issues surfacing. This is at Somerset County, Pennsylvania. "They had built four meeting houses in 1881, which became accepted by all." And they were either actually still— one of them is still used by the Amish today. I was there. There's a— on the step of the churchhouse, there's a concrete step.

There's 1881 in the— in that step. And so that churchhouse is original. It's used by the Amish today. But meeting houses were built in 1881 there. I think three of them. Or no, it says four. Okay. Okay. But this is, like, Somerset County is, like, the first Amish church that had meeting houses, um, and stayed Old Order. Okay. Sunday school. Now, Sunday school was a bigger issue, um, there in that— that congregation.

If you had been started in the 1880s that were not church-sponsored, then in 1893, two were started that were church-sponsored, but the Amish discontinued Sunday school after the division of 1895. Okay. So there were actually— they had two Sunday schools in 1893, but obviously that's probably part of the reason for the split. Some wanted it, some did not. They had, uh, one in each church district, one Sunday school. Okay. Shunning. Shunning.

Another big issue was there in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, was avoidance or shunning of those who transferred to other churches, like Mennonite churches. Bishops were called in. So the Conservative side did— wanted to shun them, um, excommunicated, shunned them. The progressive side didn't feel that was biblical. Okay. So bishops— Amish bishops were called in from other churches to help resolve the differences. They had difficulty. They didn't actually resolve them, really.

So they had difficulty having communion. And in 1894 and '95, um, I think they had difficulty. Okay. 1894. "Then the Pennsylvania district proceeded with communion, inviting participation from the Maryland district as well." Okay. That was, I believe, in 1895. "They had help from two Amish bishops." The Amish did, in Pennsylvania. Okay. "The Maryland district also had communion with Joel J. Miller's oversight." So they went ahead and had communion as well.

So now, officially, they became two church— or two, two, uh, fellowships. There was a— that, that created the division. When they went ahead and, on their own, had communion and had church, uh, together. Okay. "So those who sympathized with the stricter views of Manassas B. Beechie— Manassas Beechie— participated in Pennsylvania in communion. And those who sympathized with the more lenient views of Joel J. Miller participated in Maryland with communion." So that division officially took place in 1895.

"Maryland became Conservative Amish Mennonite, and Pennsylvania became Old Order Amish. The Amish side discontinued Sunday school, and the Conservative side continued Sunday school, and did not shun those who went to other churches." Okay. Okay. A little side note here. My grandfather, Era Gingrich, was an Amish Sunday school teacher at Kelowna, Iowa, in the early 1900s.

So it's interesting that the Kelowna Amish, during this whole, uh, revival thing, the Kelowna Amish accepted Sunday school, but not meeting houses. And the Somerset County Amish accepted meeting houses and not Sunday school. And, and, and also, on that whole thing, uh, Kelowna, Iowa, was started by Somerset County, Pennsylvania, in 18, I think, '46. So they were actually very, uh, related and connected. Okay. The Kelowna— yeah.

"In early 1900s, two Kelowna districts affiliated with the Western Amish Mennonite Conference," the conference we talked about, um, that went Mennonite here in, what, 15 years later. Um, "two Amish districts affiliated with them," Western Amish Mennonite Conference. But there was another district, Upper Deer Creek— Upper Deer Creek Amish, that was not as progressive minded. And in 1915, they joined CMC. My grandfather stayed with the Old Order Amish.

Um, and it seems most of his nieces and nephews, uh, did not in that area. Many of them went with the Conservative Conference. That's why I have, uh, relatives in that— in that setting. My grandfather made this statement. He said, "Sunday school would probably be okay if they wouldn't get the girls' cup or become big-headed and proud." And so I remember my mother saying that, um, relating that to us.

So in 1995, we, as an Amish family, moved, uh, from a traditional— very traditional Amish setting to joining a mid-Conservative Amish setting that had better morals than Sunday school. Okay. My mother's siblings shared their concern that if my parents moved to a church with Sunday school, probably their children will not stay Amish. And I had some reason to say that because of the, uh, division that took place in Kelowna, Iowa.

And when many of them got— had Sunday school, went, uh— although that— there was Amish there, obviously, like I said, that, that stayed Amish, that had Sunday school. But it happened time and time again in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, in many churches. The head Amish— or the head Sunday school eventually did not stay Amish. Okay. Now, back to Pennsylvania, this division there.

It's interesting that though the Amish in Somerset County did not accept Sunday school, they made at least two departures from traditional Amish practice. Namely, they, uh, they— they got meeting ho— they built meeting houses and also the general rejection of tobacco. So back in that day, many Amish would have still used tobacco. And, uh, but Somerset County rejected that. I believe it had something to do with that division and the light, uh, uh, of the gospel coming in and opening some areas, uh, in that way.

Okay. "The Amish Mennonite Church in Maryland and Pennsylvania continued on fairly independently till about 1912, when they joined the Conservative Mennonite Conference." So it's interesting. These people were— yeah, I'll show you a picture here directly of how they looked in 1912. Okay. They had three meeting houses, one in Pennsylvania and two in Maryland, these Amish Mennonites. Okay. The church there in Pennsylvania and Maryland. "So the first conference was held— conference was held in November of 1910.

It was participated by five ordained brethren, like we said. The second conference was held two years later, and there were 16 ordained brethren." So this church— it began to explode, this CMC church. "16 ordained brethren. They had a two-day church conference and then a two-day Sunday school conference." Now, these folks were really into Sunday school, um, right after the church conference. "Some of the visiting ministers didn't stay for—" no, no.

"Some of the visiting ministers did not stay for Sunday school because Sunday school was not yet fully accepted by all the churches of CMC. Ever since 1912, the conference was held yearly." And today, um, yeah, the CMC has an annual conference, uh, ever since 1912. And, and today it's called— I think it's called Multiply Conference. I looked it up. It took place in 1st of August of this year, I believe. But it's not like it used to be. Okay. I'm going to show you a picture of the Sunday school conference.

Well, just a little picture of it. Um, it's from one of my books' history, the Conservative Mennonite Conference. There is a picture of a few people there in the Sunday school, eating lunch, I believe, after, uh, or during the Sunday school con— or during the conference there. 1912, Grantville, Maryland is where that is. Um, it's the— the— that's the year they joined CMC. Okay. Just— just take note of there a little bit. They basically look Amish. And I mean, it's amazing.

These churches— this church had left, uh, I— I— let's see. It was 17 years before that they had left the Amish, and they still basically look Amish. It's amazing. Now, you can see the hats there. The— the aren't exactly Amish. The buggies may not look completely Amish. But anyways, right there, in the first— if you can see it, the— the older man to the right there, the closest to the picture, um, he is actually C. W. Bander. We'll be talking about him a bit later.

He was my great-grandfather— or my great-grandmother's brother. Okay. And that's his family there. So that was during the Sunday school conference in 1912. Or the— the— yeah, the Conservative Conference, during the day of Sunday school. All right. That's a picture of that. Okay. "In 1912, the annual conference took place at Maple Glen in Grantsville. They had an interesting outreach pretty early on.

In 1914, they established the Amish Mennonite Children's Home near Maple Glen, caring for orphans." They closed their doors then in 1938. Um, today that— that is called, I think, Goodwill Mennonite Home, something like that. It's just up the hill from Maple Glen. I've been there, uh, to Maple Glen Churchhouse. Okay. "In May 15—" uh, I'm sorry. "May 1915, C. W. Bander was ordained a minister, and that same year, Bishop Joel J. Minister— uh, Joel J. Miller passed away." I'll show you a picture of C. W. Bander.

Um, this is a picture of him. He was born in 1875, and he was— passed away in 1972— or 1962. Now, yeah, his father, C. W. or Chris Bander, his father was immigrant Wilhelm Bander, um, who immigrated in 1830. And, um, C. W. Bander was the youngest son of Wilhelm Bander. Some of you might know his name. There's thousands of Amish and Mennonite descendants from Wilhelm Bander. Like I said, C. W. Bander was my grand— great-grandmother's brother. And, and, uh, okay. So this is C. W. Bander.

He was the first— well, he was— so Joel J. Miller was the first bishop during the split, but he was only bishop in CMC church when they joined CMC for only, like, three years there. C. W. Bander was bishop from 1915. He was in 19— or '16. '15 he was ordained minister. In 1916, he was ordained bishop. From— from that— from 1916 to about 1940— or no, 1951, I think, C. W. Bander was bishop there at the Conservative Conference Church. He was widely used in that— uh, in other churches as well. Okay.

Here are some of the changes that took place in this, uh, Conservative Mennonite Conference Church there in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, just to show you how conservative they were. "In 1919, they allowed marble gravestones. In 1920, they allowed four-part singing in church. Um, in 1925, they switched to English in the opening message." In the church— uh, church— uh, opening message of church. "In 1930, they made a platform and pulpit instead of just a preacher's table.

They finally switched completely to English church, uh, service by 1950." They gradually, uh, trans— uh, they gra— made that switch very gradually over a decade or so before 1950. Okay. Here's a quote from my Conservative Mennonite Conference history— the Conservative Mennonite Conference quote from that book. It's— here's the quote. "During the late 1940s, the congregation—" it's talking about Somerset County and Pennsil— uh, Pennsylvania there.

"The congregation experienced a time of tension over changes in discipline or church standards. Matters of dress, use of radio, midweek prayer meetings, and similar— similar items were in question. Finally, in 1950, the conference executive committee became involved, and numerous changes were made, which gave some liberty— which gave more liberty in some areas and provided more activity in others.

History teaches that brotherly submission and spirit discernment could often prevent unpleasant conflict and heartache." That's a quote from CMC book Ivan J. Miller wrote. Okay. "C. W. Bander, my great-great-uncle, was desperately trying to keep the church more conservative than the conference, but it was a losing battle. In the end, the executive committee was called in, and I understand Chris was silenced in about 1951 from the ministry." So in 1953, Ivan J. Miller was ordained bishop to— uh, to succeed C. W.

Bander. Now, again, Ivan J. Miller is— he married C. W. Bander's daughter, and Ivan J. Miller's grandfather, Joel J. Miller, was a first bishop during the split of 1895. And there in— in 1910 or '12, when they joined the conference, Joel J. Miller was still bishop. So this Ivan J. Miller, he wrote this book. I'm— I was, uh, the history of the Conservative Conference. He wrote that book, and he— he succeeded C. W. Bander as bishop in 1953. And he was bishop till 1978.

And then I believe there's a mosque that, uh, became bishop after that. "I interviewed Ivan's son, David." Ivan's son, David. If you can follow me there. "Ivan Miller's son, David I. Miller. I interviewed him about five years ago, just after COVID." Um, now, this Ivan Miller— uh, um, I'm going to get confused here. Or this David Miller. I'm sorry. This David Miller, today he's 93 years old. Um, and he is in Ro— or close to Rosedale, Ohio. Um, and he is this Ivan J. Miller's son.

He would be Chris Bander's grandson because, uh, his mother is Chris Bander's daughter. And David I. Miller is still living today. Um, "I interviewed him. Just wanted to hear some insights on their conference about five years ago. David used to be president of Rosedale Mennonite Missions, which Rosedale is, uh, Bible Institute there in Rosedale, Ohio. That is their Bible school. The Conservative Conference is a Bible school, which was started, I think, around 1946 or so." Okay.

Now, David's son, Jim, pastors a church just close to us here in Nicholsville, Kentucky, CMC Church. "Now David I. Miller told me it was— it was mandatory to wear suspenders till about 1950 in that church in Somerset County, Maryland. Um, he said C. W. or Chris Bander thought of joining the BTOMs, but all of his children were CMC. I— so I understand C. W. Bander died a somewhat disheartened man." He died in 1962. But yeah, the church was getting more progressive.

Not nearly what it is today, but— but it was, uh, losing things like, um, the suspenders and things like that. And I'm not sure what all the changes were, but of course we talked about that. English language and things. Okay. So I think people wanted to go to college and things like that as well. We may talk about that later sometime. So C. W. Bander thought of joining the, uh, the BT Church. I'm going to give you a picture now of— of five generations here, starting with Joel J. Miller. Um, Joel J.

Miller is, like, the first bishop there in— in the CMC Church, Somerset County. Joel J. Miller, here's his picture. Okay. Let me just read this— the generations. Joel J. Miller, Jonas B. Miller, Ivan J. Miller, David I. Miller, Jim— Jim Miller. Okay. Here's Joel J. Miller. You already saw that photo far left. Um, Joel J. Miller there in the rocking chair. Sorry. Right there in the rocking chair. Jonas B. Miller, not a real good photo at all. Um, but he— he was editor of the— the Herald of Roar Heights.

It's still going among the Amish. It was sort of started by— uh, started by S. D. Gingrich, which, uh, his church ended up joining CMC. So it was sort of started by CMC folks. And Jonas B. Miller was part of CMC. He was, uh, editor of Herald of Roar Heights, um, there in early 1900s. So that was Ivan J. Miller's son. He was also a preacher. And here's Ivan J.— I'm sorry. Joel J. Miller's son. So here's Ivan J. Miller.

He's a— he's a— he's a brother that— that wrote the— the history of the Conservative Conference book. And he is a grandson of Joel J. Miller. He was bishop there, um, from 1953 to 1978 in that— that Somerset County Grantville, Maryland Church. "His wife, Della, is my grandmother's first cousin. She was C. W. Bander's daughter." Okay. All right. Here is David I. Miller. And he is still living, as far as I know. He is the son of Ivan J. Miller, uh, from Rosedale, Ohio.

And this is actually David Miller as well, but this is back in about 1980, when that picture was taken. David and his wife. Okay. Then here's Jim Miller, and that would be, uh, David's son. So that's five generations right there. Okay. And Jim is close to us here in Nicholsville, Kentucky, a pastor of a church. All right. So the issue that caused the BT Amish division was whether or not the older Amish or the Amish would. Sons of those who transferred member— uh, transferred their membership to CMC.

Um, so this church— the BT Amish Church officially started in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, in 1927 by Mosebeatchie. He was bishop in the Amish Church. And it's very interesting. Um, so Mosebeatchie, he opposed shunning those who joined the Conservative Conference. Because, you know, obviously back then they were very conservative. They seemed to be very biblical. Um, and so, um, to Mosebeatchie— what's interesting about it is, is Mosebeatchie and C. W.

Bander, I think, were baptized in the same class in, uh, just before the 1895 division in— in Somerset County there. Um, they were baptized in the same Amish class. And so Mosebeatchie was bishop of an Amish— one of the Amish districts. And C. W. Bander was bishop of the Conservative Conference. So when some— somebody wanted to leave the Amish and join CMC, Mosebeatchie did not want to shun them. It seemed like there was probably a— a— a kinship there between him and— and C. W.

Bander, especially they had known each other very well. Okay. So what ended up happening in 1927 in the Amish— Mosebeatchie's co-ministers left him, and so his church became a split-off, which became the BT Amish Church, officially starting the BT Amish Church in— in the US. Okay. C. W. Yeah, like I just said, C. W. and Mosebeatchie were baptized in the same class. Um, and they were both ordained bishop in the same year. One was of the Amish and the other of the CMC Church. Okay. I hope you follow that.

Now— now we're going to, um, the next point is Conservative Mennonite Conference today. Okay. "In the 1950s, CMC began progressing away from an Amish Mennonite identity toward more of an evangelical Mennonite— Mennonite— Mennonitism." Okay. They're— they're— they started, uh, progressing quite a bit. All right.

"Because of this, there was a split-off in 1957 and '58 called Conservative Mennonite Fellowship, which in 1983 gave birth to Bethel Conservative Fellowship." And— and I believe that's what we call today the Bethel Mennonite Churches. So Bethel Mennonite Churches have their roots in CMC as well. Okay. "The head veiling became a major issue— issue in the '80s and '90s. Eventually, it was decided that only the minister's wives were required to wear a veiling. Then in 1997, that was dropped as well.

The veiling issue and women cutting their hair was a last straw. And so nine churches pulled away in 1998 and formed Biblical Mennonite Alliance, BMA. There are quite a number of churches throughout the years that broke away from CMC. Some of you might know of Valley Odor, um, Valley Odor's, uh, Connected with Faith Builders, I think. Um, Valley Odor's father, Leroy, was bishop in Kitchipines, Minnesota. He was, uh, part of CMC back in the day. Um, Ori Kaufman was Lloyd Kaufman's father.

Lloyd Kaufman, the— the brother that's in songs, uh, that does singing or writes music. Uh, Ori Kaufman was a minister in CMC Church in Michigan. Floyd Virginia Mennonite Church is an offshoot of the Gladies, Virginia Mennonite, uh, Bethel— a church called Bethel Mennonite. They withdrew from Conservative Conference in 1972." Okay. So there's a lot more churches that withdrew from CMC because of— uh, because of— of the progression. Um, and— and but, uh, some of them became unaffiliated.

Like in Allen County, there's one called Cuba Mennonite. They became unaffiliated. Um, and so— but many of them joined the BMA then at some point. Okay. "I interviewed Walter Beattie, who's today is almost 93, I believe. He helped start the BMA also." Now I'm going to give you a picture of him. This— this is an old picture, so I don't have a current picture. This is like 1980. "Walter and Mary Jane from United Bethel Mennonite in Plains City, Ohio.

I interviewed him also to get some, uh, understanding on CMC and then BMA. Walter used to be president of Rosedale Bible Institute, um, for a number of years." Um, that was their Bible school, as I said earlier. Okay. "So the founding bishops of BMA were Gary Troyer, Alan Roth, and Paul Emerson. Walter Beattie also was involved, I believe. Paul Emerson started the, um, the EBI, Eleanor Bible Institute." Okay. So in closing, we're going to still maybe read those five questions and resolutions yet.

But the reality is that many of us have left the traditional setting for much of the same reason that they did: missions, language, new birth emphasis, you know, things like Bible studies, Sunday school, that type of thing. Not necessarily that some of us have Sunday school, but things— a spiritual, uh, you know, vibrancy, Bible school, things like that. I'm sorry. Yeah. Bible school or Bible studies. "So what's going to keep my descendants from ending up where theirs did?" That's the question.

"Is it possible that these churches started out pretty good and, you know, apostasized later?" That's— that's kind of what I— the conclusion I came to. I'm not saying everything was as it should have been. I don't think it was. But, um, I think there was a lot of, uh, a good there in the beginning. Okay. Now let me read those five. I think I'm going to still read the five questions, uh, and— and resolutions here of 1910. "Question 1: What is the aim of this meeting?" What is the aim of this meeting?

Resolved: that we stand more closely together in the work of the Lord to maintain peace and unity in the so-called Conservative Amish Mennonite churches.

"Question 2: What can we do to awaken a greater interest among our young people in the work of the Lord, uh, and avoid conformity to the world?" Resolved: that we implant the word of God in early youth, give them an opportunity to work in the winger of the Lord, lead them to read good literature, and above all, that we as parents and older brothers and sisters be good examples to them in all good works. Wow. That's an amazing resolution.

"Question 3: What can we do to maintain the German language?" Resolved: that we practice and teach it in our homes, in the Sunday school, and wherever there may be— there may be opportunity. Now, that was one point that they weren't necessarily trying to run from where they came from. Now, they were very open to using English. In 1898, I think, they preached a— a funeral service in English there. Um, and so— but they did try to keep— they weren't— they weren't trying to run from where they came from.

But they— yeah, they were still very open to English. "Question 4: What can we do to best help each other to bring about peace when discord arises in any of our churches?" Resolved: that the church itself should first seek to restore peace, if possible. And further, if they need help, to turn for help to churches that are one with them in the faith. "Question 5: Do we believe that it is our duty— it is our duty to spread the gospel?

How can we best do it in accordance with the word of God?" Resolved: that it is our duty to spread the gospel because Christ himself commanded it. We can best do it by living in accordance with the gospel, teaching the word wherever we have opportunity, remembering the poor and orphans, to do good and to communicate for God, for with such sacrifices, God is well pleased. Now, that was the first con— that was the first five questions and resolutions of that first conference in 1910.

And— and it's— there was a bit of an, uh, interesting— a humorous thing that took place there in that first conference in Pidgin, Michigan, there. Um, they were encouraged, like we said, to use— to keep the German. Um, I'm going to read out of this book just a little bit. Okay. A history— history of the Conservative Mennonite Conference. "There was a humorous incident which occurred during the discussions with some—" Sorry. I— let me start over.

"Years later, a humorous incident which occurred during the discussions was sometimes used as an illustration by this writer's father, Jonas B. Miller. The main speaker on the question in 1910 was Jonas B. Odor, who addressed the conference in German. In a warm defense of the German language, he clinched his point with an English adage and said this: 'And, brethren, let us practice what we preach.'" And so he said that in English. He was speaking in German, but you know how we need to keep the German language.

And then he said— said— said, "And, brethren, let us practice what we preach." So this remark says: "Grew the only laugh from the serious audience in two days of deliberation." So, um, so that's the end of that— uh, those resolutions and questions of the first conference there. Okay. So our focus— I'm just going to basically close here. I think I had one more picture that was just, um, the— the— the picture there of the Children's Home in Grassfield, Maryland. Uh, that was the first conference mission.

Just a few of the people there in the Children's Home. And, uh, and so, um, yeah, that's that. All right. So our focus for next time— uh, the— the talk next time is to try to understand how this conference could— could get from vibrant and conservative Christianity— Christianity to becoming what we would consider apostate Christianity. We want to be looking about— at about four or so points or suggestions on how that drift may have taken place. All right. I think I will turn it over to Brother Ephraim. All right.

Thank you, Brother Malin. I enjoyed this talk and look forward to part two. You're coming on, uh, after a while with part two, right? Yes. Lord willing. Very good. Um, I heard— heard a quote recently in regards to history and learning from history. Kind of went like this: "History never repeats itself exactly, but it often rhymes." Um, if we're not spiritually discerning, we can easily say, "Well, that was then. This is now.

Uh, times are different now." Um, but— but there's so many parallels that we can learn if we're spiritually discerning. How do we— how do we, uh, not repeat mistakes others have made? Um, it should— it should move us to humility. And that would be my call that we be humble. Um, we can easily be tempted into spiritual pride, where we're just convinced that, "Oh, we're going to do better." But if we're humble, fear the Lord, faithful in prayer.

Um, and at the end of the day, we really can't do more than be faithful in our generation. Uh, what things are going to be like 100 years from now, none of us know. But we hope to give our following generations the best chance we can, the best opportunity. Um, and if we're— if we have hearts after the world, hearts of compromise, uh, dissensions and divisions, and there's many things that can come in and dishearten the next generation or speed up their— their, uh, moving toward the world.

And so, yeah, let's live a life of humbly serving the Lord, um, faithful in our generation. And yes, looking— looking to the next generations, how can we pass on the torch? Very important. Um, look forward to part two, like I said. See what we can learn from it. And, um, I'm going to open up here, I think, now for questions or comments. If everyone— if anyone has something you'd like to say, we really welcome input. I always enjoy the time at the end if there's folks that have something to add on to it.

Uh, correction if you have anything. Just amen, whatever you have to say. So it's open. Make sure you're unmuted and, uh, staying on. Yeah. Well, thanks, uh, Malin, to share that. It's always interesting to see what's going on out there. Um, you know, how history formed everything. Um, before we keep going, I muted all the phones as they come in because it's just, you know, it'll— their button will be on the screen all the time if I don't. And I can ask to unmute them, but I don't know if that's going to work.

So the easiest way, if you cannot comment on it or— or in the call, is just hang up and call back in. So, you know, I'll— I'll go through and ask. And I don't know if that's going to make any difference because that has been an issue in the past. All right. If there's anybody able to comment and would like to, feel free to do that. Good morning, brother. This is Daniel from Maine. Hey. I was— very interesting to me. Uh, I have a question. I— I'm not asking this, you know.

I have been called a hypocrite for appearing like an Amishman while driving a car. How does that, uh, come across to you fellows? I— I'm very comfortable in my Amish clothes, but am I a poor witness? And then the other thing is, the— the conference thing, is that— is that something scriptural, or is that something man-made? Yeah. Uh, Daniel, hey, it's good to hear your— your voice there. Um, good questions there. I— maybe somebody else can comment.

I can't quite, uh, I've heard that argue— that thought, you know, dressing Amish and being— and driving a car. I don't— I don't quite, uh, quite see that that's a problem or necessarily a hypocrite unless you're living a double life or something. But maybe somebody else has more to say on that. Um, I guess I'm also— I— I would say I probably— personally, I probably have a little bit of a question on the conference thing idea that— that they joined together in one— but I understand— in one big conference.

I'm not sure that that's always a good idea. Um, but from my understanding, they were— like some conferences are, they did give each church some leeway. Although what happened in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, there, where the conference came in, um, maybe was— yeah, they did take some control there. That may have not been, uh, good.

Although the fact was, the church was going a certain direction, and their— and then— and probably didn't do a lot of good for their bishop to try to— try to hold back if— if it wasn't going to be held back. So, yeah, maybe somebody else has more— more thoughts on all— all that. Yeah. I appreciate your questions, Daniel. Um, yeah, just a couple thoughts there. I don't feel like it's being a hypocrite. Um, it— it comes down to a heart matter.

If you feel like you're more righteous because you have Amish clothes on, um, you know, just make sure you search your heart and that your faith and hope is completely in Christ. And if it is, and your background is Amish, um, you have family that's Amish, I don't see a problem with that. In fact, it could maybe be a conversation starter where, uh, folks might ask questions and you can point them to the Lord.

Um, the other thing on conference: personally, I don't— I wouldn't say that conference is wrong to have conferences if it's done with the right heart. But what people have to be— be really careful with is that your allegiance to a conference isn't too strong. Um, it must be in Christ, and our faithfulness must be to Christ. And if the conference starts pulling us away from Christ, we must be willing to leave.

Where— where people get into trouble is when the allegiance to a conference is so strong that you just can't leave, and— and it's drifting. It's moving away from biblical faithfulness, and— and everybody just goes along with it. Um, I've seen that— seen that play out in a number of conferences and even in other countries where the— the being tied to a big group of churches so tightly that it led to compromise. That would be my thoughts. Uh, yeah.

So the reason it just came up is, uh, he mentioned a couple times that they still looked Amish. Uh, today, you know, I say the— the Amish are a salt in this nation, but it's become— this may sound negative— extremely dumb. So, yeah, those are just some of my thoughts. Thank you. Thank you, Daniel. All right. Anyone else out there with anything you'd like to say? There might be those that would like to but are thinking, "Well, I'll wait to part two and see where we end up at." Uh, and that's fine.

Give you a little bit more time. If you're thinking about it, would like to say something, just come right on. Yes. Elmore Stall used to say, "The only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn anything." But I still think we need to study and— and listen to what happened in the past. So thank you very much for your efforts, brother. Yeah. You're welcome. All right. One more chance. I welcome everyone to come back on. Is it next month, Malin? You plan to do part two? I think so. Yes. Yeah. Very good.

Lord willing. All right. Um, again, thank you, Malin, for your efforts. Thank you, everyone, for coming on. Would you close us in prayer, Malin? Sure. All right. Let's pray. Father, we thank you for your, uh, salvation. Lord, your grace that— that enables your people to be that testimony. Father of Jesus on the earth, Lord, we thank you that you have a people that show forth your praise. And I pray, Lord, that you would just continue to build your kingdom on the earth.

Father, just pray that you would help us to have a right focus toward you, Lord. A focus that's eternal. A focus that cares about people. Father, a focus that loves you with all our heart. I pray that you would help us to have our focus not just on the past, uh, but especially maybe towards Jesus. Father, that we could build our, uh— that we could help build that kingdom, Father of heaven on the earth.

Lord, and I just pray to help us to learn from the past, learn from those— those, uh, those people, dear people, Lord, that followed— endeavored to follow you. And I just pray, Lord, keep us from deception. Keep us from apostasy. Keep us in the love of God. We just pray you'd bless, uh, each one here on the call. Bless our congregation that we could, uh, be that testimony of Jesus. We thank you for your grace. We pray your blessing on us all. Lord, we need you. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen.

Again, thank you, everyone. And may you all have a blessed day. Guide me o'er the great Jehovah, pilgrim through this barren land.