I left The Old Order Mennonites ~Jerry Martin

Guide me o the great Jehovah, pilgrim through this barren. Welcome to Hope for Wandering Amish. It's a blessing to have Jerry Martin back, uh, with us here this morning. He—there's a previous talk that he did, um, growing up in the Old Order Mennonite Church and, um, sharing his, um, youth years of sowing wild oats and how the Lord got a hold of him and changed his life. And that recording is available on the website or YouTube and a couple other platforms if any of you are interested in that. Um, so, uh, welcome back, Brother Jerry. Uh, good morning. We're glad to have you again. Yeah, why don't we have a prayer? Father, thank you for this time this morning.

We pray your blessing upon this meeting. We pray your blessing upon Brother Jerry as he shares with us this morning. Lord, may you just give him the inspiration and the freedom to share what you have laid upon his heart. And we pray that this time could be helpful and a blessing to many. Thank you, Lord, for your goodness. Thank you for giving your life for us in the precious name of Jesus. Amen.

All right, the time is—Brother Jerry.

Okay, thank you. Well, good morning, everyone. Uh, I, uh, I can honestly say that, uh, uh, it has been a walk of faith and not without hope, but it has been a walk of faith because I didn't always know my future, not always know where I was going. So I grew up Old Order Mennonite. So when I think back, once I committed to joining the church and getting baptized, I, uh, didn't give God much thought after that.

You know, I'd pray, we'd probably pray at night and pray at three times a day. It's typical to pray before mealtimes, but it was always a silent prayer. That's just the way our growing up, that was our culture. We didn't have a prayer book, so you had a—you had, you know, to apply your own thoughts. And I remember, you know, it took an effort.

It was hard to pray to God, basically. It wasn't uncommon for me to be in a silent prayer at a mealtime or something, and my thoughts would actually wander. And then I'd kind of just be done with my prayer. But then I'd try again, you know, well, it's really God in heaven. I should pray, you know, really pray about things and, you know, but I guess I just didn't know him, and it was hard to communicate in a real honest way with God and Jesus.

But that changed as time went on. I guess I'll just break in probably. I think I shared very quickly some of my life after baptism. So now I'm going to share a little more about after my baptism, a little more detail maybe, and some things that I probably wish I would have said or some things I learned along the way and how I got to where I am now, I guess. And hopefully it'll bless somebody just the way the Lord led me. So I grew up in a family that read a lot, did a lot of book reading. So after I submitted my life to Christ and the Bible opened up to me, it became my source of life, my daily bread, literally.

I don't think I read any book for quite a season of time. I don't remember how long. And it's ironic, but my wife is not the same. She—the book, the Bible, was always a hard book for her to read up till she was born again because whenever she read it, it was very condemning to her. It would just—she had to close it. It wasn't—it didn't speak love. It didn't, I think, maybe growing up under the law or whatever. All she could see was what she did wrong in it, which changed to some degree, but never quite like it did for me. The Bible literally became a lively book for me, and I—I read it from front to back.

I don't know, since then probably a few times, but I should probably again, it's been a while. But it didn't take me long after I got over my eyes that when I came across the scripture of baptism. And I'll just say the way it spoke to me, and it's—I'm not going to—I'm going to kind of quickly read some scriptures. In Luke 3, you can follow me if you want to. It's in Luke chapter 3. It's about John the Baptist.

His baptism of repentance, it says, for the remission of sins. And that after I, you know, I was baptized in the Mennonite, and that was just as it went hand in glove. He became a member and also accepted Jesus at the same time, according to the way they see things. But unfortunately, that was not—I guess I was not—I don't fault anybody. I didn't know God, and I was living my own selfish life, and I thought that was just the way you do it.

Didn't really clearly see what it really meant and what it all entailed. But as I read the scriptures with new eyes, I came across a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, and it stood out to me why baptism remitting sins. And then as in Luke chapter 3, verse 4, it says, as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way of the Lord, make his path straight. Every valley shall be filled in, every mountain and hill brought low, and the crooked places shall be made straight, and the rough ways smooth, and all the flesh shall see the salvation of the Lord.'" So it stood out to me that, but this is the way it spoke to me in repentance, that act of repenting and turning towards God prepares a way for Christ entering the temple, his body or your—he becomes one with your spirit.

And with that, repentance, you know, levels the playing field. This is just how it spoke to me. And it was, you know, in times past when a king went to visit another country, they'd prepare a way for him to go so he could ride in his fancy chariot and all that. And that was just, as I saw that, it spoke to me that that's your repentance opens the door. A true godly repentance opens the door to God entering in, or his Holy Spirit, I should say. And then, you know, as you read on, it says he rebukes the—he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized, "Brutal vipers, who want you to flee from the wrath to come?

Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham of these stones. And even now the axe is laid at the root of the trees. Therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." So that at that time, that meant to me, you know, somehow I had met, I thought I was being a member. I thought I was, you know, what else did I need to do? I never realized I didn't ever have true godly repentance. And as you repent, even though what stood out to me at that time was you may not be perfect after repentance and baptism, but it says even now, even as we speak, the axe is laid at the root of the tree.

Basically, what spoke to me at that time was you're in your sinful state, you can only produce bad fruit. But as you repent, turn towards God, you may not instantly—there's things that instantly changed for me. There's some things that I—it took some time and God even now keeps purging me. And, and, and but have hope the axe is laid at the root, that root that wants to produce bad fruit. And it could mean other things, but it just at that time it spoke to me that the axe is laid at the root that gives that bad fruit. It's going to kill the root and take care of that. And every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Then it goes on to, you know, it does a little preaching about the tax collector and the soldier and all that. But I went on, on down to verse 16, it says, "I baptize you," John answered, saying them, "Oh, no, verse 15, now as the people were in expectation, all reason in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not." So they were, they were, they knew a Christ was coming and that, and this, this new thing caused them to ponder those things. And John said, "No, no, this baptism is, is just for the remission of sins and repentance." But like Peter, I think it's in Peter where it says, "Repent and be baptized and you will get, get, be given the gift of the Holy Spirit."

So, so that Holy Spirit inside of you causes the spirit and the flesh to war after that. And so when I read over this, it just, even now I realize that this is, this flows out of your obedience. John answers saying to you all, verse 16, "I indeed baptize you with water, but there's one mightier than I that is coming whose sandal strap I'm not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

And it took me, I didn't immediately, that didn't immediately speak to, but later I realized there's other scripture passages I'm not going to share, I'm not going to share for the lack of time about all that, what that all meant to me at the time, but it says Holy Spirit of fire, that that fire, it says his winnowing fan is in his hand and he will thoroughly clean his threshing floor and gather the wheat into the barn, but the shaft he will burn with unquenchable fire. So the way that stood out to me at that time, back when I was pondering about baptism or not, I realized that once he, the baptism of repentance, once you repent and get baptized, that's when the fiery trials start.

That's when he will continue the work that he has started. He will, if you let him, he will thoroughly purge the threshing floor. He will clean you up. And I realized there's probably a lot of different ways to look at that, but that's just the way it spoke to me. And hence that helped me decide to go for my second baptism. So with that, I guess I'm a true Anabaptist. I was baptized once and, and I just, it was really something that caused a lot of rustle because I knew if I did this thing, this baptism, it would, it would have caused a stir in my family and lots of different things. And I've pondered a lot about that in the last year, a number of years since then.

What is it in baptism that causes such a stir? So I've come to a place where I believe a true baptism of repentance, that John the Baptist would not rebuke you, is when you really repent in a godly fashion.

There's more than what meets the eye when you get baptized. I, I like I said, maybe in the last message I gave or that that day of baptism was just a very special day for me. I, I I wouldn't trade it for the world. So anyway, that was one of the first things that came up was that baptism and I, it was really not something easy to go through. And by evening, the community knew about it. I don't know how, but it seems like here in America, we can go to a church and get baptized and not much happens, but that's not the case in lots of places in the world where baptism can cause a lot of trouble for a lot of brothers and sisters in the world.

And yeah, I never quite expected to get quite the pushback that I did, which, you know, thinking back, I realize I don't blame anybody. I mean, what were they supposed to do? I, if they, you know, promoted everybody can get confused maybe, but I don't, I guess where I stand now is if you're baptized and you're very comfortable with that, wherever you were or wherever you are, leave it alone. I've met brothers since that are dear to me that have been baptized in old order settings and I've stepped out and are comfortable with that, but then I've met a lot of brothers that are not and got rebaptized. So I guess I'm not promoting this per se, but I would say if you, if God is asking you to, I would say for me, it definitely quieted that down.

That was a very joyous time and I would not exchange that for the world. And then I had to since think of, I think it's where is it, Mark 10. Let me see if I can find it real quick here.

It's interesting to think about baptism and, and then in Mark 10, verse 37, they were having this arm wrestle with amongst themselves and James and John ask him that they would, he would, Jesus would grant them to sit on the right hand and on the left hand in their, in his glory.

And Jesus answered him saying, "You're not able to, you don't know what you asked. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink or be to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" And they answered, "They're able." And Jesus answered, "You, they will indeed drink from that cup."

So, but to give, to sit on the right hand or left is not mine to give. Then he goes on to say, has a little back and forth about it, but greatest shall be the least and the servant of all and all that. But what I got out of it is Jesus is literally saying, "Yes, you will be baptized with the baptism I'm baptized with, whether that's suffering or whatever."

So I could say that the very thing that was meant for evil, God can use for good everything that comes against you. If you trust God, he can lead you through those things. So, uh, that, and that season, the Bible spoke to me. Almost anything I read was really, really just had a new, new light and new way to look at even the Old Testament. I, and I, with that, I realized that looking back, I was a pretty proud person. You know, when God shows you something, you're, you're, you see where you came from per se. And, and, and, and when you see some wrong things, you, I guess I had to think of Moses.

He, he, he literally wanted to take things in his own hand. And I think that I did that to some degree. I had discussions with my family and I, I think I went about it the wrong way, telling them what I see wrong. And it was primarily about rules and stuff. And I would not recommend that, that that's not going to go anywhere.

Uh, I think it works way better if you could tell them what Jesus did for you than try to tell, uh, try to tell them what they're all being wrong. Uh, uh, maybe, maybe if I was purged of my pride, maybe that would have worked better. But in the season I was in, it did not.

I saw something in the scripture that they are not seeing and they should see it. Hence, I tried my best to show them. Well, that didn't go down so well. I, I got probably more pushback that way. And you know, God had to deal with it. And the way he dealt with it, I was reading and I don't remember exactly when, uh, when it was, but I was reading Luke 7, where it was about a sinful woman that came in crying and wiping Jesus' feet, wetting them with her tears and, and that, uh, what was it, Simeon, maybe I forget the name of the Pharisee or the scribe that he went to have dinner with.

He just, his thought was if he just knew what type of woman this was, he would not let them touch him even. I mean, that's a sinner. And it just, I, I, I was reading over one time, it just stood out to me that, and God just spoke to me in that, in that chapter saying, you know, Jerry, if you're that attitude towards where you came from, if you hold that attitude above them, that you have it and they don't, that they're all wrong. And I, and you go about telling them they're sinners, they're, they're not getting it, they're sinners. If, if they would just know that they're sinners and if you, if that's your attitude, you will never help them.

I don't know. Something in that just broke me.

My attitude changed towards my fellow man after that. I, I could see them in a new, new way.

It's still true. If you, it doesn't matter if, uh, if the person in front of you is wearing tattoos and looks way different than you would, if you cannot, if you have that attitude that you're, you've got it figured out and they don't, God's not with you.

It's the same if you're a, if you're a preacher, if you're teaching the word and you have it and they don't, they need to get this. If you have that attitude, God's not with you.

We need to remain very humble about who you are, where you came from. This lording over each other is very damaging. And it's, and it's, I'll be honest, it's, it's something I've wrestled with over the years, realizing that this attitude of being God's chosen person or special person somehow, it dogs you when you're a Mennonite. Somehow I believe you look around you, you're doing everything better than everybody else. You, I mean, it works pretty well. We're not getting divorced and be married. We're, we're doing all right.

That has to go. God help us. Uh, I was very, looking back, I was very bitter at where I came from. And with that bitterness, according to scripture, you have, you will just defile people. You will not, there will be no help for the, the very people you're saying that have it wrong somehow. I, I beg you to look into yourself.

Um, it's something I deal with still today. I, I realize I, it's, it's very natural to judge people or how they look or whatever. It doesn't matter what it is. Comparing yourself among yourselves, you're not wise. It's, yeah, maybe God showed you something. Yeah.

Maybe God did show me something. Yeah. Maybe the Bible is an open book. Maybe it does speak to me like it did. Maybe I do. Maybe God just had mercy on me and I needed it. It's not there to, uh, I'm here to help people, not, and, and, uh, it says, he who desires to be the great among you shall be your servant. And whoever desires to be first shall be slave of all.

I, uh, since then I've, it seems like I've been somewhat sensitive to that. And it doesn't even have to be, it doesn't even have to be, uh, like standing at a pedestal and staring back at where you came from. It even happens amongst brothers and sisters in a church, functioning church body when it's very, it's very easy to somehow think you, you know better than them somehow, or whoever it is you. Yeah. It's, that's a tough one. Uh, uh, and then divide it out with, you know, you're here to help each other and see each other's flat spots. And I think it, it, it, it behooves us to do as Jesus said, make sure that the beam is out of our eye before we try to help our brother.

That, that big beam that will cause you not to see clearly, and it will cause more damage than good if you try to reach out and help someone. It's, uh, yeah, I, but I still sit here and I say, well, I still want to be faithful to, if I see something to help a brother along. So I, it's just, I think it's a hard attitude and God has had to deal with me there. And it has since gotten much better. My thing, me and my family's relationship at home is, is, uh, way better than it used to be. My dad and me talk back and forth. We've had some deep conversations actually, and they're actually coming up for a visit this summer, which is a treasure.

So I, I, I, I, I respect, I, at the end of the day, I stand here, I respect where I came from. I understand why they do the things they do, and I'm done mucking it. I'm done saying it's wrong.

I think it can, it can be very dangerous relying on a set of rules, but I, I don't think that I'll spend time. I don't want to spend a lot of time, uh, bashing at rules that, yeah, extra biblical rules or whatever. I, I find it to work better to talk about heart issues and not get caught up in church rules. And yeah.

So anyway, after baptism and, you know, walking with, uh, it started a journey of we, we left the Mennonite church then because we were asked to either renounce our baptism or leave the church. One or the other, we decided to leave because, like I said, I wasn't going to give that up for the whole world. It was just me and my wife both were ecstatic. I mean, heaven was open. It seemed like everything was just flowing smoothly.

And it happened that a number of other, uh, Mennonites where God was working in their hearts simultaneously. It was, it seemed to be a move of God. And it's interesting, before we even got baptized, before we left the church, I, I actually, we were having Bible studies, and there was also a book study. An old order Mennonite opened his house. I learned that there was some people coming there. And again, it was me and my, what I thought I knew actually destroyed the book study. I, it was me and a few other brothers and this old order Mennonite.

And basically, I, it was a book that on love, I think, I think it was even John Coblins or something. I don't know. That doesn't sound right. I forget the title, the, the, the author. It was a good book, and it was just how to walk with your family and stuff. And, but honestly, at the season I was in, I was so wrapped up in what I left and how wrong they were that I hijacked the meeting basically and, and destroyed the book study. Looking back, it took me some time after God dealt with me. I actually ended up going back and apologizing to him for, because he pretty much, well, I was a bitter person and I, I think, so I'd get to the meeting and next thing you know, you're on a topic that about how wrong the Mennonites were and what they're all doing wrong.

And I think it was hard on him because he was being a Mennonite yet. He kind of worded it this way that we should, I think we have to stop book study for a season. He said something like, I think I thought I had left all those things lay.

So I, I, since then it took a couple of years before I realized it and I, I remembered that God brought that to my memory and I ended up going back. I met him one time in the public and I just, just apologized to him. I said I, I was not in my rightful place. I was, I hope he'd understand that the season I was in was just, that's all that could come out of me. I, God had one, God takes a Bible and he wants you to read it and wants it to, to use it as a handbook and a guide for you. If you stand there picking it apart and pointing it all out there, I, that's just a, I would recommend to use it as a mirror for your life and guidance for your life and your family.

And then if your heart is clear, you can help brothers along. I'm not saying that, but primarily I was reading it and I was seeing new things and holding it over other people's heads.

Uh, so along the way we left the Mennonites, stopped that book study. Uh, as it's interesting as the Bible speaks, you know, I always, it always was fresh to me. I always had something to say. And it was interesting how that worked at that time, how often I got into conversations with rank strangers. I, I don't know. I wish that, I don't know that it was all good, but, uh, definitely a season to be remembered. I, I lost friends. I'm not talking, I'm talking about I had a, I have a, I run a business at home, custom staircases, and I meet people and customers all the time. Like I'm always interacting with customers. And it was ironic how often it seemed like it was primarily ladies.

Like many times I'd have women that have a, need a new stairs or with their husband and their husband, uh, whatever my wife wants, I'm good with that. And then you'd be discussing design and everything. Next thing you know, you'd be talking their personal problems. I, I don't know how we got there. I think back in the old, I'm thinking, how did that happen? What, what caused that to start a conversation? Or even long friends, long time friends, a friend that I, I still a friend with that he had a long, not to get into his story, but he had a rough, rough, rough childhood. And, and next thing you know, we're sitting in the shop for three hours and he's just sharing his life and we're praying for each other.

It was just a, yeah, I think back on those times and even with my eccentricness and bitterness and my outspokenness at that time, many times in a wrong way, God still used that. It was, he used it in different ways then. Uh, but anyway, we left the church and a bunch of other families did at the same time, got baptized. We had been doing Bible study before then, get together Wednesday nights for Bible study and go to the Mennonite church after that, our old order Mennonite. And even there in the Mennonite church, the Bible spoke to me. I mean, the preacher spoke. He had, I never knew preachers could preach like that.

So it's the word of God and it's alive. If your heart is open towards God, it will speak to you. Uh, somewhere along the line, another lesson I had to learn, uh, I got this phone call or this text message from somebody, I forget who, about this woman. It was a local woman. And I knew, I knew the man. I'd grown up. They were in the neighborhood. They were actually ex-Amish at one. He's left the Amish at one point. He married someone from outside the Amish church.

And somewhere along the line, they got really rough, uh, had a really rough marriage. And she actually left him and moved several hours north. And then we get this text that she's coming back. She wants to reconcile with her husband. But with what they went through, she had put a court order against her husband at one. And they were not allowed to even see each other. But she's coming back. She has to leave the situation she's in. She was running from that situation up north. She had actually got, uh, she was actually carrying a baby from another man at that time. It just sounded very rough to me.

And this text went out. This woman is coming back. She needs a place to stay. And I kind of proposed it to my wife. And she wasn't sure about it. She didn't, you know, she, it's like letting someone into your life. Someone you don't even know. And I don't know. The Bible was just speaking to me. And to me, it was clear in the Bible. If the Bible says you should help someone that's in the ditch, you should help them. It doesn't matter how you feel.

And so I sent it without really getting into agreement with my wife. I sent a, a text saying, if you can, if you cannot find somewhere to stay, we'll take her in. And I don't know, looking back, talking over my wife later, I, that was wrong. I, I would not recommend moving ahead in most things without being together, you and your wife as one agreeing together. It says where two agree together, it shall be done. And to me, moving ahead, making decisions without my wife, uh, some bigger ones like that, that, that affect her life, uh, was wrong on my part. I, I, uh, had to learn those lessons too.

Uh, along the lines of pride and, and, you know, just holding, comparing myself among others and just the way God opened my eyes and then look around and you see all the other wrong things. And that there's, there's pride in that. I just had a lot of pride with all that. And I've, I've pondered how is God supposed to deal with that. And I've come to a conclusion there's one way he does deal with that.

Fiery trials. What is built by man will be burned. What is built by you will not stand the trials of fire and, and persecution.

And it says in the scripture that something about the man being saved by a fire and what cannot be burned will remain. And I look back and I, I didn't realize it at the time, but, uh, in the season I was in, for the lack of, I guess just to explain it, I, I didn't realize it at the time, but I think stepping from being a nobody, just going to church, warming the pew and going about my business during the week, it feels like I'd, I'd cast all my apples into the cart of pleasing my customers. Like that's how I got my pat on the back, if you will. That's how, so there was pride in that too.

But turning to Christ and not being free from all that immediately, I recognized that the same problem would dog me after that. Like there was, seemed to be like there's a need to be needed is what I call it.

So, so God used that, the opening of my eyes when I met people and, uh, I always had something to say. And you know, if I was my turn to teach or share, I was just, God would be faithful and he'd, uh, he'd give me something to share. And I didn't have to necessarily dig it up like a teacher. I could just, it would flow for me. And, and I, and through that, I, I, I realized looking back now, I, I, it created a, a cynicism or a cynical way to look at people that did not experience that, that maybe had, maybe not that gift of seeing the scripture that way, or maybe they were growing into the Lord.

Or I, I, I got to a place where I sometimes judge some of my brothers and sisters. Why can't, why, who are, why cannot they even just share a some teaching? What, what's wrong that they cannot even share?

I had to, I had to repent of that too, because God deals with everybody differently. And yeah, maybe I was strong in an area, but I was very weak in others, very proud. And, and, and I, we left the Mennonites and we started gathering as a house church per se. It was sometimes a firehouse or whatever, Parsons House. And it was very good. It was a very good season. I, I would say the good about that was in the beginning, especially there was a lot of prayer and confession as a small group. Uh, everybody had a voice at the table. And with people repenting, God gave them fresh revelation. I wasn't the only one getting revelations.

There was a lot of revelation going around. But I think sometimes I was more comfortable speaking in front of a crowd than some people. And some people would just bunch up. And I, you know, I was very cynical about that. You know, the good thing because time again, repentance and a clean heart, everybody seemed to become one with that.

And, uh, but with our open communion and we, our group was very open and people would say that when they walked in, we'd get strangers walk in and they say there's just a sense of love here. And it was in the beginning. I mean, uh, I thought, I thought everything was going right. I, I, my vision, my dream was going right. The church was growing. There was outsiders coming in even.

Uh, and you know, there was not everything perfect, but as a whole, it seemed like God was blessing our efforts. And it definitely was blessing the repentance and confessions. And it seemed like whenever that was going on, somebody had a revelation or repentance or something that God showed them. God was there. I mean, it spoke to hearts and more people shared. It was just a very, it's probably the sweetest time of my life in that season.

But I realized that as time grew, time went on, not everybody thought like I did. Not everybody saw the scriptures the way I did. And with people coming in from the outside, there were differences in what, how they saw the scripture and what the scripture meant and how they apply it to each person's life. And with that came a, uh, it's testing like to walk together. And I, I've thought of that. I pondered that a lot since then. What, what could we, in Amos 3, it says, can we, can two walk together unless they're agreed? And I, I realized, uh, there's things that you can disagree on, like, and then it, and it doesn't matter that much.

Like even me and my wife are different. But as a whole, if me and my wife are pulling two different ways, it would destroy our family. So it seems like, uh, me and my wife have to come to, into, into oneness with pretty much everything, everything that matters in order to move forward. And when that's not happening in a church, it becomes very hard. And that's, that's really what started happening. There was some that, you know, want to like to have more of a worship style setting. So everybody had their turn, uh, moderating. We would get turns to, and the moderator could choose a person to bring a message or lead out in songs or, or whatever.

And some of them would, you know, there was a few that would even bring in a projector and, and a screen, white screen to, to, to bring some of the, what they called worship songs. And I never, never cared for that. I, for some reason, it just didn't feel like God's with that. And maybe, and I saw some other people say, well, that is worship. They'd get up out of their seats and kind of, you know, raise their hands and, you know, I, I, I don't know that I have much to say to that. It just didn't seem right to me. So we had that, those little subtle things. That was just a surface thing.

There was a lot of underneath things going on that we had differences, uh, that I won't go into detail, but needless to say, with differences and people not seeing eye to eye. And then, uh, next thing on his heels is being offended with, with each other.

That started happening. Offenses started piling up, I think. I tried to my best to stay clear of it because I realized according to the scripture, you need to be free of those things. But as people got offended and walked off, it, it was a eye opener to me. So what causes people to, what is it, what's, what is happening that people are walking off instead of coming in? It started shifting and people started walking off instead of coming in. I think literally I can look back and I can say that the Spirit of the Lord had, it was, it was up to the leader to bring the Spirit of the Lord, it seemed. If the leader had a clear heart, there could still be a semblance of daily bread and refreshing for everybody.

But if the leader was walking in offense and tried to bring a scripture, you could just tell that it all just fell to the ground. It wasn't, it, it lost its meaning. It lost its, its, uh, power. I, I, I always look at it this way to explain it. When Jesus had his first sermon, he stood up and read out of Isaiah.

And he said, as was the custom, they read out of scripture. So apparently it was a customary thing, possibly even Isaiah, the possibly even that very scripture as a reminder that Jesus is coming. Uh, he's coming to bind the, to heal the brokenhearted on and on it goes.

And but what stands out to me was the, the people there were astounded because he taught with authority. He had, there was something behind it that was bigger than him, the, what they were seeing in front of him. So they heard that scripture time and again, and it was just words. But when Jesus spoke it, it brought value to the words, if you want to say that. And I've, I've realized that if your hearts, I've experienced it myself, if my heart's not clear, I can, I can, I can preach something or say something or try to do something, and I can feel it just either hit the ceiling or fall right off the edge of my tongue and fall to the ground.

It just doesn't have, it feels so empty. So I think that's what started going on. We ended up having empty fellowship. Basically, if it's almost the same thing where I came from, it was very hard to, to bring a refreshment to the crowd. And I call it this way, people come in with a closed heart.

Uh, they're not allowing Jesus to keep it soft. And that included me. I, I struggled with that through that season. Uh, as, uh, time went on, it just got harder. I mean, the, the, the amount of people showing up dwindled. Even some of what I call the outsiders that once praised our name kind of gave up coming.

And I got to a point where I said, I don't know if this work is mine and I'm holding together. I, I want to, I don't want any part of it. So we took a trip to Alaska and we had been asked to, uh, to go to, to, to Alaska to help, uh, with a project. And I said to my wife, if we, if we come back and this is still going, we're going to have to really have some really hard conversations with everybody that's still remaining. And if it falls flat and I was the one holding together, it's God's will. I can't hold this together anymore. So we left and came back two weeks later and it was dispersed.

And I didn't have to have, we tried later, I think, getting together with some people to just try to resolve some stuff, but it never, I don't know, it never got very far. So there again, if two, I guess the lesson I learned is, or the lesson I want to take from that is if two can two walk together unless they're agreed. So if I take that into a fellowship or a church, you can build is a box of rules where we can all agree on rules and it kind of flows all right. You can make it work when you, when you're about the rules. But if it starts becoming about heart issues and what God wants to do, I think you have to have some distinct decisions that are agreeable with each other.

At least maybe the church down the road is a little different and God can use it. But as a, as a small group fellowship or wherever you're going to church, I think it's expedient to, to at least agree on some solid things. And if there is an offense, we need to clear it or, or it becomes sort of a, a dead thing.

So after that, uh, it, it, it probably got to the darkest part of my life, I think, after Christ. I mean, I had lots of ups and downs in our marriage and I don't have the time to share everything, but after we just quit going to church or gathering together, I was at the threshold of now what? I mean, where do I go? I, I had been, I had kind of held charity Christian fellowship up pretty high and I thought they were the, but there was nothing like that around. And do we move? It was just, and, and with that, a lot of the brothers and sisters drifted and went another direction, you know, losing some of our, well, what do you call it?

Core values or cultural values, like what we call modest dress and a head covering. And it just created a whole new rustle. And, and probably the hardest part was for my wife, some, you know, men don't change as much. They kind of can blend with the culture a little more. It's not such a jar as if it seems like when a lady changes her ways and her thought process, it really shakes things up. And it was very hard for my wife. And we had to spend a season of wrestling through, are we really, what do we really believe? Is this really something worth dividing about? Or I mean, every church around us that we, we fit in feels like they're just gathering around a set of rules and this is the way we always did it versus the Baptist church down the road where my conclusion and my wife was always, well, I, I know there's brothers out there in the Baptist church, but I'll be lined up with maybe three or four different people that in the same church that might be carrying a gun or things that I hold dear, like divorce and remarriage and things like that, non-resistance.

It doesn't just seemingly stop with the letting go of some of our values from where we came from. So I was just not willing to let that go. But my wife had a really hard time with that, with watching some of the sisters that they were very close to suddenly become distant. Now, where were we? Who was our brother and our sister? We didn't seem to have anybody. And on top of that, with, it seemed like I didn't know what to do. Even then the Bible closed on me. It was like, I couldn't read.

I, I, I quit reading my Bible. I, I, I couldn't get anything out of it anyway. Nothing made sense anymore. So I just, uh,

I, I wanted to actually give up. It would have been so easy just to give up. But something inside me didn't let me. I kept listening to message after message on head coverings and what does the Bible really mean on who is my brother and what is non-resistance? I just really started digging in because what the Bible told me wasn't that different from what I grew up with. I grew up with believing non-resistance and a lot of those things, but am I just reading them with colored lenses? Am I, what do I really believe? What is it saying?

And I would always come back to, I can't change the way I see things. I just couldn't. But then I talked to my wife and she's like, well, everybody else is prospering and we're not getting anywhere. What, what have we got to say? And it was just really hard on me. It was really, really, really hard. But I think God was using even that. And with time, uh, we went on a road trip and I had listened to some messages from, I think I shared this before from followers of the way in Boston. There was a three-part series on a head covering. Cindy has some and, uh, it was good, but for some reason, Matthew Milioni's message, three-part message, he's shared it at a Mennonite church somewhere.

It's online. It just spoke to me because he started out with putting the onus on the man. And I think that's what caused my wife so much wrestle. Why is all that weight on a woman to keep men from lusting and all these things? And I, it bothered me because I'm like, yeah, that's true. Why, why are the women so have to be bear the, the brunt of being so different from the world around them?