Discussion Jumpstarter
Study leader reference - not a definitive answer
Question 7
Irvin prayed, “I’m not going to try. You’re going to have to do this… if you’re real, you’re going to have to change me,” and others in the call identified that as his turning point; what is the difference between surrendering self-effort and excusing passivity, and how can a group discern which is happening?
Another way to ask: What’s the difference between giving up self-effort and just being lazy or passive? How can a group tell which one is happening in someone’s life?
Discussion Jumpstarter
Direct Answer
In Irvin’s case, “I’m not going to try” was not excusing sin but surrendering his confidence in self-effort after repeated failure; it was a desperate turning to God for real change. A group can discern the difference by looking for humility, honesty, and resulting fruit—especially a new desire for God and obedience.
- His prayer came after years of failed determination: “I decided, ‘Well, I’ll just quit’… and it wasn’t quite that easy… lasted for a couple of months… and I was back in it.”
- He prayed because he was at the end of himself: “I didn’t know what else to do anymore… just confessed everything to him.”
- He framed it as God’s necessary intervention: “If there’s any chance… you’re going to have to fix it through baptism because I’m not going to try.”
- Another brother interprets it as gospel surrender: “When you realize you can’t do it… God, you’re going to have to do it… That was your turning point.”
- Irvin agrees: “Once I gave up and quit trying to do it myself… then God could work.”
- The “fruit” followed: desire to read Scripture, disgust for old music, talking with God, and later confession to his wife.