Ministry in Small Towns: Part 1 — Patrick Matthews & Bill Shiley — Ep. 087

Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. I'm here with Patrick Matthews and Bill, what was the last— Shiley. Shiley, okay, awesome. We're here in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. You guys have a ministry here that you call The Room. And let's just dialogue about this a little. You were on one of our episodes last year about your conversion story, how you came to know Jesus, and then you went and started this ministry.

Just walk us through a little bit of that. What was that process? What do you guys do here? Okay, to start with how this began, I took this room over. It was four different rooms, and it was decayed, rotted, and torn up, sort of like myself. And as I went through each room and ripped out everything, I was ripping out the sin in my life, and I was rebuilding myself as I did this room.

And it's still not done. And if you look at it, it will never be done. There will always be something slightly excruciating because in my life, there's always something slightly excruciating, and Christ is always compelling me to do something more. It was a practical way of me living out Christianity by me doing what in this room I was also doing in myself. Yeah, so what types of ministry do you do here? And how long have you been here? We've been here about seven years, and we're a soup kitchen. That's what we started with. We came to minister to the people on the street. And what we've found is our participants were getting a bit excruciating because it wasn't working the way they wanted.

And what they realized is that the mission field really was in their heart. And they had to come in here each time with a positive smile and a willingness to teach God to these people, even though they weren't getting it. The intended persons were not the mission field. I think it was us. So you have a number of different things going on here then. Yeah, we have a soup kitchen on Tuesdays and Fridays, and we have a Bible study that Bill does every Saturday. He leads that out. And then we have a church service, which Bill, again, is leading out on that. Wonderful, wonderful. And Bill, how long have you been involved with this? I've been pretty regularly involved since probably 2015, sometime 2015.

So it'll be about three, three and a half years, somewhere in there. So can you all walk me through the core vision of this? I mean, it's Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. We're not in some big city. This isn't New York or LA. We're right here in, I don't know, kind of small town Chambersburg doing this. Walk me through that. Yeah, what's the vision? And also, how does this work with what Jesus taught us, you know, going to the least of these and all of that? Originally, I was in prison, and Christ told me to come back to the town that I committed the crime and that if I didn't fix what was behind me, I couldn't go ahead.

And that was both fiscally, spiritually, and relationships. So I came back here. I didn't want to do this. The cost. They always talk about count the cost before you build a building. Had I counted the cost before I changed my life, I might not have done it because it's cost me everything that I had prior to being a Christian to turn my life over to Christ. And this is completely

different than what I thought. I had to, you know, I grew up on motorcycles. I don't ride a motorcycle. And that's just one of the plain things. I don't wear black boots anymore because I used to kick people in the head with black boots. I wear brown boots. Everything in my life had to turn around. And it turned with a twist of Christ. And had I counted the cost before I did this, I wouldn't have done it. So one day I was walking across the bridge and I said, "That's it. I'm done. I'm not doing this. I don't want this. It's too much." And every step that I took away from this room, because I was heading to rent this room, and I was on the bridge coming here, and I turned around and I said, "No, I'm not doing it."

And every step I took, I thought, "You know where this is taking you. You know what this does. You know what the cost is." And about 12 steps out, I turned around and I said, "Okay, I'll do it." And I came here and I rented this room. And the first thing we did is we pulled all the blinds off the windows. And the owner said, "Well, what if somebody breaks in?" I said, "Well, God will provide."

I had a simple childlike faith. And sometimes that childlike faith gets tainted by the words that are thrown around in the groups. So my intended goal on this place was to teach people childlike faith. Yeah, I'd say each of us is going to have our different perspective about it, but the goal here is to do something. I'm not sure that Jesus really targeted a demograph as much as he encountered people and he met needs and he did something about them. And for me personally, that's a little bit the way I feel about the room here is Patrick had already started before I even moved up here five years ago. Through part of my personal journey with God and surrendering the home life, the abuse that went on in my life, part of when I came to that point was beginning to look for God using those things in my life to bring good.

And automatically, part of that was reaching out to other people who had experienced some of those kinds of things. And I fought it for a long time, but that's why I'm here is because there was something I needed to be doing something.

And to make a long story short, with moving up here, I didn't have anything anymore in my life that I had had in Kentucky or even at Faith Mission. And this was an opening. It was available. I was asked to come in and help out with things. And so it's the door that got opened. And I don't have any alphabet soup behind my name.

It's not like we think we know how to do this and here we're going to show you a five-step process, but simply learning to connect with people, to show them God's love, and to lead them towards his healing in their lives. And that's what we try to do here. And so are you targeting primarily homelessness, or is it just anybody you see in Chambersburg that would be needy and need a place like this?

We don't really have to advertise. Everybody in town knows. They just show up. And I, for a long time, didn't know people's last names because when the police came, a lot of our clients have dual lives. One they show here and one they purvey in the street. And when the police would come and say, "Do you know Bill?" Blah, blah. I would say, "I know a lot of Bills, but I don't know that person." Well, they've gotten smart and what they've done is come with a picture because they know that I know most of the people, but we don't ask people their names. It's not important. It's not important how you got here. It's important that you're here and they feel safe enough to come in here.

Well, I'm really curious then, how has it been going with the church that you've started here? You're leading out in that, and I'm guessing that's been going for several years. Do you see, you know, we all like to, "Oh, what's the numbers? What's the results?" But honestly, is there a lot of interest in what you're doing here, especially the spiritual side? It's beginning to catch. It's like anything.

In the beginning, you have to remind people, and then if you get them to come enough times, I've heard often that if you have a habit you want to break for 30 days, if you do something different, then it becomes your standard. Well, how do you quantify that in church? These are people that go to any church, and they usually go with their hand out. Now they're coming here and they're being fed spiritual food, not physical or not financial food, which is what a lot of people go for.

You know, if I go around and prompt each person to come sooner or later, it may become a habit. I don't know. Yeah, as I told you in the last interview, David Eby came to me 28 years before I turned my heart. I don't know. Wow. And I explained this the last time. The no-till method of witnessing the people is to go through, put the seeds, don't disrupt the soil. I think in this collaborative effort, we're going 21 inches deep into the soil, turning it over, knowing that the rocks in the soil may upset our piece of equipment. It may even harm us, but we're willing to do that. And if we turn the soil up enough, then we can plant the good seed.

And then, like I said before, the demographics used to be the people to come in here. I think it's us, the volunteers that come in here, that is the real mission field because we have a lot of plain people who theoretically want to do something and practically don't know how to do it.

Bill? I think that's a good point. And I'll say that myself, that my interaction here has done more for me personally, challenged me personally, probably than anybody else here. This whole thing has kind of evolved. So we started out more or less having it open in the afternoons for people to be a safe place for people to come out of the cold and stuff. We began offering meals here.

And so that was the main attraction. And then the Bible study, that Bible study actually was another lady began a ladies' Bible study, and then guys started coming in. So I began to help out and eventually took it over. So it's kind of been a modular thing as we felt needs. And then the Bible study, that's been going for about two and a half years now. And what happens is we encounter people with the food. That's social time. It's where we make connections with people. And then people who are hungry for something more serious come in Saturday nights to Bible study. And then the Sunday afternoon meetings kind of grew out of the fact that Bible study is great to have discussion and questions, but I felt like we needed some time with them where someone could present in a systematic, orderly train of thought, teaching on a certain subject.

So that's more or less what the Sunday afternoon is for. One of the reasons that people come in here is because it's a safe place and because trust is built. And that happens through a lot of social interaction.

The ability to influence a person is directly proportionate to the amount that they feel like we actually care about them as a person. So then there's things like Christmas Day, Thanksgiving Day that we do things in here with them because a lot of them don't have family or it's not the kind of thing they want to be with.

Yeah. And so it sounded like this isn't you didn't just show up and instantly have people's trust. Oh, no. I'm guessing this is a man. And I think that's something that we really need to keep being reminded of. We start doing ministry and we're like, "Oh, where's the fruit?" You know, we want to see results because we're impatient. And you know, this is things that can take many, many years. Like you were saying, those habits, those mindsets need to be changed. It's that continual planting of seeds. We had a guy up the street, and we initially came in contact with him because he overdosed twice from heroin. And I went out and walked up and put my arm on him and I said, "You know why we're here and we keep pestering you?

We really care about you." And in a lucid period of time where he stopped using the heroin, he came in here and he was encouraged by that. Now, Satan always, you know, shows you the other side. They show you the beer can, but they don't show you the dumpster where you throw it. And he right now, I think, is following the alternate path.

Talking about the church thing, my idea when we started this, I kept saying to Bill and different people, "We need to start a church service." The inclination or the incline from street to Mennonite church is really steep. So if we can somehow bring it down, package it in a one-hour increment and throw some sand for traction, maybe eventually we'll get some converts. Yeah.

The thing about church here in town, we have a service in here or a meeting Sunday afternoon, however you want to use correct terminology there. But at this point, there's Chambersburg Christian Fellowship meets in town here. But something that's becoming a growing conviction to me is that people are not going to take us seriously until we become one with them in circumstance.

And that's my prayer is that a church, a group of people who are committed to following God as dear children live here in town. And I think that's when things are really going to be able to take off because a big piece that's missing right now is our ability to mentor people.

These people still have a social life they have to live, and they have to go other places for it. And so at this point, as far as like having people who are part of indigenous people who are actually part of a church that's following Jesus here in town, or whatever you want to call it, a conservative Anabaptist type church or something like that, we don't really have that yet. There are people who come regularly to Bible study, who come regularly to the Sunday afternoon meetings. But I feel like we're not really able to offer church here yet because there's not people who actually live here, and we don't have enough manpower here, so to speak, yet.

So that's a goal I'm personally working towards is moving into town here. And like moving it up to the next level is you've built a lot of groundwork. Now let's stabilize it, basically. Yeah, right. I am a member of Chambersburg Christian Fellowship, and my church and the three sister churches from Shippensburg and St. Thomas are all involved in this, but they don't know what to do with it sometimes.

And so we have, I'll say, the blessing from everybody to do this church. We have the nod and the wink, and it's working. Like I'm encouraged by what I see because if we have somebody come in two or three times, that's the fruit that I'm looking for. You know, it's because it's beginning something. It's starting to change that habit. We have a young lady up the street who is coming in, and she's trying to put a veiling on. And I don't know if she knows what she's doing completely, but she's feeling convicted. And I think that's what this room's about, conviction. Yeah, the demographic we're working with here is definitely a difficult one.

I'd say probably 60% at least actually have a place to live. Maybe more than that. Maybe it's more closer to 80%. Don't know. But it's low-income people, people who have a job but aren't making a lot, things like that. And the poor in today's society is different by and large than the poor in Jesus' society because most of them are poor because of personal drama, things that have happened in their lives, scarring that's happened, the way they've responded to it. And that keeps them from having a job either because of their lack of interpersonal skills or because of crime. They can't get a job, and that kind of stuff goes on. And those things, there's deep roots to that stuff.

And that's where you're not just going to come in and preach a message and have somebody jump up and start looking like a good Mennonite and come into church, so to speak. And I'm not sure that's really what Jesus wants, but it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work, a lot of building trust, like you mentioned earlier, and walking with them through those little steps. Well, what you're describing right there is discipleship. Right, exactly. And Jesus said, you know, go into all the world and make disciples. You know, I mean, obviously, converts is a natural part of that, but disciples is the actual goal. So I like that, that you're focusing on that.

It's your long-term work. Yeah. When I originally started this, I could only take it so far. I'm an advocate for somebody who's in the street. I always want to do for them. And I realized to get it to where it needed to be, I needed to pass the torch on to the young people. And they took the name, the Queen Street Mission, and turned it into the room, which was the original name at first, but it didn't have the spiritual connotation, so they avoided it. But the young people have taken this and they've made it their own. Like I said to you before we started this, if the vision is here and the visionary goes out of the picture, what happens is the vision dies with it.

But if you pass the torch, here's the torch, Bill. If he takes it and he runs with it, now he's living it and the vision goes on. I think about the guy besides the pool in Bethesda. You know, he knew he was crippled, but he did the same thing over and over, expecting different results until Christ came in there. He didn't realize there was an offer. And I think that's what we do. We walk around and look for those people who are crippled, maimed, sitting by the pool.

And we invite them in here.

And I'm not saying this is the only way, but this is the way that we found right now. We would like other people to come from outside the community. Like Tidings of Peace has volunteer people. We would love to see them come here and help us and explore this idea and see if we can build the community in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. And why Chambersburg? Why not?

You know, like, well, yeah, I wanted to hear you speak into that, though, because I mean, Chambersburg, okay. I mean, you know, it doesn't sound dramatic like New York City or, you know, whatever. But yeah, just walk me through that one. Okay. Chambersburg was, like I said, I came out of prison and I went back to the place that I committed crimes. I felt that if I could change my life here, then anybody could change their life wherever they're at. So I came into Chambersburg and somehow I kept selling it to the local churches and they got on to the idea.

I don't know. I don't feel led. I go to Chambersburg Christian Fellowship and people say, "Well, you know, go over here, go over there." And I said, "But I'm led here. I feel the Holy Spirit wants me in Chambersburg Christian Fellowship." And when they accepted me in, I looked at Clyde Lehman and I said, "Thankfully, you lowered your standards and let me in, but now that you lowered your standards and let me in, I'm here. What are you going to do with me?" So in a way, I'm challenging them to chip away at their thought process of people and possible converts. And I don't know. I just feel led to this place. I don't know why God wants Chambersburg, but I feel he wants us here.

And I think other people are starting to get that same feeling. But you have to be here to have it happen. You know, there are so many. We can be overwhelmed with people in New York because the services are so many. But right here, this is a manageable thing. And the entrance into what's called the movement of the broom, which is starting to grow in Hagerstown and possibly will go to Harrisburg at some point, has to start where it's manageable. And then once it's obtained here to a margin, then you can go somewhere else. And you have to pass the torch on to the people as we go through. If we don't achieve that, then all we have is action with no real motive.

When it's almost like, okay, so you're choosing a, I mean, definitely a smaller town than a lot of places you could have went, is part of the idea you could inspire Anabaptist churches all over the place to say, "Look, your local town's right there. Go, go, go do something like this. There's needy people everywhere." You know, I was talking to a very conservative Mennonite church down that way. I'm not going to say. But they told me about their mission in Haiti. They told me about their mission in Africa. And I said, "Well, that's really cool. Chambersburg's eight miles up the street." And they didn't want to deal with that. It's easy to go into a country and show up and people go, "Ah."

But it's hard to come to spiritually stuck people repeatedly and trying to get them to pry themselves out of their behaviors. And you know, this is not an easy win. But Christ went to the people who were unwell and tried to mentor to them, people that were sick. He didn't come for the people that are well. And I guess in some ways, what I'm proposing here is I came to my church because people felt they were well. And I'm pointing out that we're all sick and we all need help. Anyway, to get in touch with me, www.HarkenHouse.org. Email me at Patrick@HarkenHouse.org. Bill is billtoteach@gmail.com.