Hello again, Justin! I see you're not wasting any time here :)(which I appreciate)!
So on this subject... you have a really good question there. "How can this really be obeyed acceptably to the Lord in our days?" I think that that is a reasonable approach here and deserves some consideration.
In our home church, (and here in TZ), we have an offering every Sunday morning service- but other than that, I don't think that we have any other way of giving unless it is by one person's choice.
Thanks for sharing brother! That is the same for churches here in Chicago as well on how they handle giving.
But I do not really know how we should handle that thing of selling all and giving all to the apostles... wasn't it talking there about when they had a whole bunch of extra stuff to sell? Maybe I'm getting things mixed up. Anyway, I think it is something we should take a bit more seriously, this thing of giving. The apostles weren't just trying to get rich, you know.
Does anybody else have insights?
I agree. From my studies of the subject, I know it was definitely them giving up their excess. They were simplifying their lives for greater focus and attention to Christ in their lives to love and obey Him and to love His people and to support those in need, storing up for themselves in heaven and no longer on the earth.
The more wealth and materials you have to manage in this life, the more it takes time away from your devotion to the Lord and ultimately most often weakens your heart for Him when weighed down and distracted by them. And we truly can't afford to have any time wasted in our devotion to Him as much as we need His grace to save us from sin.
They sold what they had and put their money into a community fund where responsible, truly strong in faith, righteous and trustworthy leaders were able to handle it and responsibly use that money to benefit the community and those around them. You never saw an accusation that the apostles used that money to enrich themselves or misused it in any sense. They lived as true demonstrations of the faith to us by denying themselves and serving us and taught us that same heart of Jesus.
The apostles taught and appointed elders and leaders to run the different churches/ekklesia's that they lead and I would think that those leaders continued this same pattern that the apostles started. They still had possessions, but they did not claim any of those possessions as their own but had all things in common. They just had a lot less possessions after selling what they had a simplifying their lives in that way.
And they were committed to living with that kind of wholehearted love with one another as a community and family out of their obedience to Christ. And that happened right away upon many people's conversions to the faith.
To me, that model in Acts is a model of what ideal Christian living according to the will of Christ looks like. I believe that model should be continued but it isn't really practiced. Since this community studies and teaches on the early church and their doctrines. I wonder what perspectives are here. Because it is difficult to have a mature talk with fellow American believers about a subject like this, at least where I live.
I mostly get Americanized answers (self seeking, culturally centered answers) or people who see what the scriptures say and agree with them but refuse to live that way or refuse to pursue that because of their own desires and having limits to their obedience to Jesus. It is a tough subject but one I have never been able to ignore. Whoever of you does not forsake all that He has cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:33 (Meaning we cannot be a Christian, a disciple and a Christian are the same thing.
Acts 11:26 ) To me, to rightly understand this and rightly apply it to our lives is integral. So it is a big subject on my heart that I would love to hear good righteous wisdom and discussion about.
Ok Bennett, when I hit on that thing of where you mentioned that they were giving up their excess to simplify their lives to focus more on Christ, I remembered something. Wonder what you think.
So we have a person here that is very involved in our mission (actually he is not currently here but is in the states). He is reasonably well off, is an entrepreneur with a large company under him. However, he is not just making himself rich. As I said, he is very involved on this side, donating large amounts to the mission building projects and supporting several mission families with jobs in his firm.
Do you think that he should sell all his excess (in other words, his business)?
My personal stance is that if it is his primary source of work he doesn't have to. "If a man will not work, neither shall he eat." 2 Corinthians 3:10. If he is using his money to support the kingdom of God that is a good and the ideal way to use his money.
I believe we all should work whatever jobs or skills that are good and beneficial to society that God has gifted us with or that He has put in our hearts to do and we should use that money we make to meet our needs and those of our family by blood if we are heads of households or have parents to take care of and the needs of our family in Christ and serve the poor and needy.
Each of us has different gifts and skills from God that would certainly bring in different amounts of income and resources but we bring those together to utilize for Christ to help one another in faith and to help this world caring for the people who are suffering and overlooked and forgotten.
I do believe he would just have to consider in himself if the business he runs is too time consuming to maintian strong devotion to Christ as he needs. If he feels the business taking away from that he may need to leave it behind. Or if the Lord told him to he would need to. Also I believe humble living is something that we Christians are called to live by as well.
Such as, if I had a very well paying job where I could afford expensive things while still supporting the work of Christ I personally would still choose to live in an average home with basic necessities, an average car etc... and give a majority to the work of Christ and just have enough left over to care for my family and those around me that I enounter who have need. I would not have a 12 karrot gold watch while giving to the work of Christ.
That would be equivalent to the rich merely giving out of their abundance when Jesus commended the widow who gave all she had. (Mark 12:41-44 and Luke 21:1-4) Which I believe the Lord is calling us to, to give all we have.
That is my stance and understanding so far, but that is why I am asking for more perspectives and wisdom from this community if anything can be added or sharpened in my understanding and if good steps can be taken for us all to be more accurately obedient to Christ. Circumstances like these that you mentioned should be discussed.
I am sure they were discussed at the time of the apostles who had people from all different walks of life coming to Christ but they found a way to make it work and it produced strong devotion to Christ that impacted their society and brought many more people to sincere devotion to the Lord.
Yes that would be mine also. Wonder what everyone else thinks on this?
Yea hopefully I get some more responses. I haven't heard from anyone else yet. Perhapse many may be busy over the elections. Here in the US the president elections are taking place. Probably the most intense election we have ever had haha.
You're not voting are you?
I haven't physically voted. I have cast my vote with prayer and am trusting God with who He puts in place.
Yes so many people are voting 'pro life' and I think it just makes no sense.
I agree that voting for someone merely because they are pro life doesn't make sense. Although abortion laws are important to Christians since we desire that every life that God forms in the womb has its chance to live and fulfill His purpose for that life, there are more reasons why Christians are voting for Donald Trump. Joe Biden is heavily for promoting and exalting sinful movements.
His first 100 days in office he vows to make it his priority to push what is called the equality act which will heavily support the lgtbq movement and will restrict Christians from freely practicing and expressing their faith without repercussion. The more sin is accepted in society, the more blinded people become to the truth and the more resistant they become to the gospel.
This has already been happening as the lgtbq movement has gained more acceptance and they persecute believers who oppose or resist their agenda. That will only get worse as it is further accepted.
Donald Trump on the other hand has already in his legislation past laws that are more in line with the kingdom of God and if he gets in office he plans to push even more views that align with the Lord's agenda for America such as resisting abortion, allowing Christians to freely run their businesses without being required to support sin and not forbidding Christians to speak out against sin according to their faith.
Between the two candidates one candidate is going to exalt darkness and bring the nation into more sin and rebellion against God and will support the further persecution of Christians for freely practicing their faith while the other candidate is resisting those lawless values and is promoting more legislation that supports the laws of Christ.
People don't like Donald Trump's character but his legislation that he has already passed and that he plans to pass definitely lines up more and supports the kingdom of God so much more than Joe Biden and his agenda. If you look at the presidency more from the perspective of salvation and what helps and hinders people from seeing the truth. It can be easier to see why it is better to support Donald Trump for the kingdom of heaven's sake that we can freely practice our faith without harm.
Persecution will come and is inevitable but if it can be delayed from coming by our actions and choices that is a good thing. So I understand why so many more Christians are voting. The person who gets in office will definitively effect the practicing of our faith greatly in this nation. One for better and one for worse. And America is greatly influential over the world. The further sin is exalted and accepted in this nation the further it gets accepted and promoted in the world.
I asked the Lord if He wanted me to vote but He did not tell me to. So I have just been keeping the election and things going on in the world in prayer. There is a lot at stake with who gets elected so I am just really praying for the Lord to choose the person that He sees fit that will be better for His agenda in the earth to save those who are lost.
It's really just choosing between the lesser of two evils. Something I do not want to do or encourage anyone else to do.
That's how it always is with elections. But there is definitely more to it with this election when you pay attention. Nevertheless the prayers of saints are the most important and effective things needed to guide the nation on the right course.
I really do not want to or need to pay attention. But yes, I agree. We must keep praying.
That's up to you. But as long as we pray that is good.
Hey there Judson. I have been doing the course about the Christians and politics and I agree now that Christians should stay away from politics completely.
I have always been that way in my faith but this year seemed to be different to me than other years and the stakes had seemed to be higher to me with the two candidates but God has confirmed to me that He doesn't want His kids to deal anymore regarding government and politics than to pray for them for their salvation and preach the gospel to them when we have opportunity to do so.
Jesus alone is our King and we must only devote our time and energy into advancing His kingdom and to bring His rulership in our nation. I have been able to share and encourage some other brethren to take that better stance as well.
What are you all's thoughts on vaccines and if they decide to make vaccines mandatory? My position is to refuse them if we are forced to take them at the risk of our jobs or being able to shop. Do you and other brethren have some wisdom on the godly approach to take to that?
I don't really know. Why shouldn't we accept the vaccines? From what I see, there is nothing really wrong with it... but then again, I haven't been in touch with all that a lot.
I personally know from my own research that vaccines can be very harmful using toxic substances like aluminum and murcury and other things. Also aborted fetal tissue is used in vaccines and that is aweful. Injecting those things into our bodies can't be good to me in the sight of God just as eating food sacrificed to idols is not permissible. Human scientists still do not understand many things about the human body and people are greatly subject to their human errors when taking vaccines.
It has cost people's lives. An old friend of mine's little brother was normal before he took vaccines but after he took a vaccine he became autistic. Many people testify of suffering similar and aweful results. The name Pharmacy in the Pharmacy industry comes from the greek word Pharmakiea which is the word translated as sorcery in the New Testament that God said He would judge.
(Galatians 5:20, Revelation 9:21, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:15) I believe taking manmade drugs and vaccines is in the lines with sorcery and witchcraft trading one issue to get healed and/or protected by satan but in turn taking on a host of other issues whether you are aware of them or not (especially injecting aborted fetal tissue in our bodies sounds like nothing but witchcraft to me).
This is the government coming and injecting something in our Temples that goes against the way God naturally designed our bodies. And something that I am sure that God would not approve of us injecting in ourselves if we did research on the vaccine ingredients.
There is also the factor that the pharmacy industry is a billion dollar industry. That industry being such a moneymaking industry certainly can be subject to human greed and exploitation for our harm and for their benefit. There are more things that come from that factor that I could share.
It is a topic to really consider. Vaccines were once a choice but they are moving toward making them mandatory due to the corona virus and we really have to have a righteous response to it.
This is closer to the lines of the direction the world is heading with the mark of the beast where one day where you cannot buy or sell unless you have that mark and saints must refuse it at all cost (just as we discussed where I mentioned that the technology advances are leading towards.) I don't believe this is the mark as some do, but I do believe that the vaccines are evil and are a violation of our temple that we should not accept.
Should we obey the government and take it trusting God to protect us from the harmful effects it could have (which He can do by faith). Or should we reject it and refuse to inject ourselves with harmful substances and aborted fetal tissue and refuse to receive from an industry that has its roots in sorcery though it may cost us our ability to work normal jobs or to shop just as you cannot do these things nowadays with a mask?
I want to correct the words "our temples" to God's temples but it's too late for it to let me edit it but that is the more accurate thing to say.
