Forsaking all and community living

Yeah, I can agree with that. But still, what is so wrong about vaccines? I really don't get the point. (sorry if I'm being ornery) :)

If someone were to ask you what is so wrong about voting and being involved with politics there is no scripture that can be given that explicitly says that it is wrong and shouldn't be done but the harm of it is real, although hidden, and the principals of scripture do apply to the situation. I won't repeat the things I mentioned but I mentioned the problems with vaccines in my initial response, both the spiritual and natural implications of it to consider.

For one, many vaccines use aborted fetal cells and thus are unethical for Christians. Corrupting the blood stream especially this way is evil and the spiritual ramifications are serious.

Hello dear brother, Judson. I agree 100% with dear brother Chip. Before anyone receives any vaccines, they should request, and obtain, a full listing of the ingredients that make up the vaccine that the producer of the vaccine is required to publish and make available.

Once you know exactly what is in a vaccine, you can then proceed to make an informed decision, seeking fellowship from other believers and prayerfully considering the situation before the Lord.

But you have to know exactly what will be injected into your body in order to make any kind of informed decision.

May the Lord richly bless you, dear brother, as you continue to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness.

Ok, yes, I now agree. If it something that hurts our bodies without a reason, I think should abstain from it... if it is not mandatory. What if it is? Or becomes, within the next few months? (the Covid thing)

I think it is a life you are called to. It isn't for everyone, yet it is. There are places like the Bruderhof and the Elmendorf communities--if that is what you are looking for. Then there are groups like the Followers of the Way. And, well, the ones we all know Amish, Mennonite, Hutterite. It depends on where God is calling you...

Blessings in your discerning.

I'm still seeking God's leading regarding Christian community as well. I do love my church and there are so many good things about it. Yet I also don't want to avoid a single command of Christ. For now, it means that I try to live generously and put everything I can into the Kingdom. I can't deny, though, that I am affected by others' materialistic mindsets and even more by my own selfishness. I would be thrilled to be able to be a part of such a community.

The home I live in now is a lovely picture of what God can do with a family as well. He obviously does work that way. There are many opportunities to serve Christ right here. I am eagerly awaiting God's leading into better service, more sanctification, and closer knowledge.

It's very fascinating how quickly people become defensive when poverty as a way of following Christ is mentioned. "Oh, that wouldn't work today," I have heard too many times to count! If Jesus said "Follow me" and "Sell what you have and give to the poor" he obviously intended that it would be within our power. I'm going with that. If God asks Christians to do something dangerous and they get killed, the war is won. There is no losing if you follow Christ. Keep seeking his will!

Thanks for your feedback Lora! Follower's of the Way definitely has the best model of biblical Christian community of any that I have found. I'm not interested in the communities that are isolated from society. That isn't the way Jesus taught us to live in this world in holiness.

I am interested in community right in the middle of society who are directly engaging the culture with the kingdom of God and the way of Christ living in righteousness and holiness together right in the middle of the evil around them and shining brightly as lights to the people around them. That's the way Jesus taught and the way the earliest Christians lived. Follower's of the way is doing that and is surely closer to what I am looking for.

I'm not sure where they are with selling what we have and giving to the poor and living humbly for the sake of having more to give for the kingdom of God to serve the poor, but on many other aspects I have seen them spot on with living the word as a community. For me, I would love to be a part of Follower's of the Way in Boston where the leadership there is strong.

Just due to Boston being an expensive city to live it would be difficult for me to move and connect there due to much of my Christian life being lived humbly without much saving. Right now I am saving for a car to be able to find and move to good kingdom community but that will take some time for me.

I absolutely agree Sarah. That is exactly the position that I am in. I am in search for community with strong leadership trained in Christ's way and is serious and committed to the accurate way of Christ taking the New Testament seriously and literally to obey Jesus. I have settled for less many times and have been a part of many churches that were not accurate in the way in the hopes of being a contributor to bring change and help for us to work together to live Christ's way accurately.

That just has not been healthy for me to grow as a disciple. As you mentioned, other's wrong mindsets and my own evil heart can easily corrupt and throw me off and I fall into the error of others or they into my error if ever I am off. That is exactly what the scripture says would happen as it is written, "evil company corrupts good habits." or 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 Not keeping company with brothers who are sexually immoral or covetous, idolatrous etc...

In typical church communities scripture like that aren't followed.

There is a church I know of that has regular times of confession and accountability every week before communion so that when sin or issues between brethren are in the community they are addressed, brought to the light and brethren have a chance to receive prayer and counsel and support to overcome, or if there are those who are obstinant in their sins and refuse to repent they are put out of the community so everyone stays in the light.

If we are going to keep in the light we need to walk in the light and associate with people who walk in the light when walking closely together in this faith. It takes strong leadership to lead communities to be that way.

That is why I am looking for a community where leadership is strong in Christ's way and is not easily influenced by other's wrong mindsets or by my own but they with wisdom and experience can teach and train and guide believers on this path of righteousness. That has been very tough to find but it does exist.

Just as in the Lord's messages to the churches in Revelation, there were two that He had nothing bad to say against (Smyrna and Philidelphia) there was one that was alive but dead, another lukewarm another that allowed corrupt doctrine, another that left their first love etc... All of them had lampstands before Christ and had opportunities to repent of their errors.

All of those were different states of the churches at that time and they are the states of churches today so there are communities that the Lord has nothing to say against. I myself want to really grow as a disciple and be a part of community with uncompromising obedience to the word where I can be humbled and trained and guided and be able to contribute to the work of God. I would like to avoid the doctrine of the Nicolatians and Jezebel's and the loss of first love.

I would love to find churches like Smyrna or Philidelphia where the Lord has nothing bad to say about them because I am sure that I will be well equipped and trained in this faith with such a community. God has been heavily getting me out of the individualistic Christianity (Just me and Jesus) mentality and really helping me to understand my part in His kingdom and the need for us all who are truly His, to work together to serve Him.

That has made it my top priority to find that kind of community where I can be a part and grow as a disciple and also contribute to His work in this world.

Regarding poverty for the sake of the kingdom, I agree!! There is a course on here called "True Greatness" which is my favorite course on here. In one of the modules they talk about Francis of Assissi and he obeyed the Lord to give up everything to live poor in order to serve the poor and he inspired many others to live that way. That was such a powerful testimony and you can clearly see the grace of God on his life from making that choice when you hear his story.

I actually had a Jewish economics professor in college often take jabs at the earliest Christians (like he actually mentioned them directly in his lectures!) about how they gave all their money away to the poor and he was saying how that it isn't an ideal way for us to live (he's teaching economics) but he actually respected it as a noble way that they chose to live. Even he saw the light and difference in believers living such a way.

If Lord Jesus says it we have to obey it no matter how hard it may be nor what everyone else is choosing to do. We each have to give an account of how we handled Him as Lord. I would just love to join together with others so we can help and inspire each other in that mentality because it is indeed hard. But I will indeed keep seeking Him and obeying Him the best I am able till I find that. I am glad to hear that you have such a mentality to obey the Lord that way! It is encouraging to hear!!

I do hope the Lord allows you to find that community to be a part of as well! The kingdom of God is worth selling all that we have to obtain. (Matthew 13:44-46)

Justin,

Have you looked at the Bruderhof? They live together with a common purse, yet they are very involved in the community around them as well as working along side other Christians and people of good will. They have communities in the country setting and communities in the city setting. They are very serious about living life like the early Christians. Their site has free resources so you can read more about them at https://www.bruderhof.com/ . I am most familiar with them.

But, yes, I too really like the Followers of the Way. Besides Boston they show that they do have a groups in Dearborn, MI; Minneapolis/St. Paul, & Richmond, VA too. I pray for you to be led to the community He has for you to serve Him in and for every provision to get there.

Blessings as you seek Him,

Lora

I have only briefly looked into Bruderhof. Someone I know was looking into them and mentioned them to me. I'll ask him and see what it was like for him in researching and looking into them. I didn't know that they had communities in the city though where they engage people with Christ. It seemed like moreso an isolated community when I looked into them. How familiar are you with them? Are you able to describe their lifestyle and engagement with the world in preaching and serving?

I actually was a part of Follower's of the Way in Minneapolis at the beginning of this year. It was the best church experience I have ever had. We were working together for me to get established out there but unfortunately, a tragedy happened and one of the families of the church lost a child of theirs so that changed a lot for all of us. I was living with that family and we were all really growing in the faith together.

Once they lost their child they needed time to heal and it wasn't going to be ideal for me to try to move out and live out there since you need a car and a license to really function well in Minnesota and I didn't have either at that time. I decided to move back to Chicago and now I have my license and am saving up for a car.

If I get a car it would be better for me to be able to connect with a community and be independent to be able to connect and not have to rely on that community or put any strain on them. So right now I am working on that piece and in the meanwhile spending time training in the word and looking into all of my options for possible community.

The ideal community for me would be a community with strong leadership and uncompromising in applying everything that we are commanded in the Bible to practice. A community really committed to holiness and being known as His disciples by the love we have for one another and demonstrating the life of Christ to the world in our preaching and serving. I appreciate and will look into any recommendations!

Hello Justin, sorry , I'm a bit late in the conversation. Are you aware that FTW have congregations in Minneapolis/St.Paul, MN , would that be a closer proposition for you? And then their other groups in MI and in VA, MA and Canada.

Are you in contact with them? Drop them a line. Also Chambersburg Christian Fellowship in PA are another group which fellowship with FTW.

Keep searching and the Father will show you where you are meant to be.

God Bless you

Mark

Hey there Mark! Thanks for the suggestion! Yes I am in contact with them. I actually was a part of their church in Minneapolis at the beginning of this year. It was the best church experience I have had. We were working together for me to get established out there since I didn't have a car or license at the time and you need that to be able to live out there but the family I was staying with had a tragedy happen where they lost their baby. So that changed a lot of things for us all.

They needed time to themselves to heal so I decided to move back to Chicago and am saving up to get a car to be able to connect to a good community again. I have my license now. I want to be able to be independent and not put any burden on brethren to help me move for wherever I connect. I also know that the leadership in MN is newer in their faith and doctrine.

They have the leaders from their main branch leading from a distance but I do really want experienced and strong leadership in the immediate community that i'm a part of. I would love to connect out in Boston but I know it's expensive to live out there. When I first contacted followers of the wat they directed me to their smaller congregations because they are pretty large and established out there. That is how I got connected in MN. I have thought about Chambursburg!

Pennsylvania is pretty far for me so I would definitely need to get a car to work on connecting there. Right now the best option I see for connecting with good kingdom community is by getting a car which will take a bit of time unless I find kingdom community that is closer. Thanks so much for your help and suggestions Mark! I appreciate it! Grace be with you.

Hi Justin, I've noted some thoughts of encouragement to share with you. And I am very much in a similar situation here in Perth, Western Australia. So I share many of your "concerns".

Have you considered that you may be getting called to stay in Chicago as that "mustard seed" to start a small group of intentional followers? I am sure FTW or Chambersburg could provide a solid leading. And Anabaptist Perspectives You Tube channel has some vid info on church planting. Also check out the Strength to Strength website (they have a Saturday morning zoom meeting for anyone interested) for a link to their conference just been on church planters forum.

Church planting is a massive challenge.

Or have you considered a Home Church? Just starting with another person and try to grow it. Here in Perth I have made contact with another person and we try to meet regularly, we to are dealing with the tyranny of distance. We are in contact with a Mennonite Church group on the other side of the country (Sydney and Deloraine, Tasmanina) who provide us with some materials and kind, willing words of love and encouragement. We are hoping to meet them in person at some stage.

And I have done a fair amount of the modules on this site and also have several books from Scroll that are an immense help.

We of course will never find the perfect church and if we do , lets not join it lest we spoil it (paraphrased, I cant remember original author). Something I have struggled with over the past and sometimes I thought I may be making excuses not to join in somewhere. And then I start to see all issues people are not trying to deal with and I move on.

Of course we all want to be following Christ as closely as is humanly possible, and for some its a harder journey to come to terms with living in a close community such as the Hutterites and the Brudehof do. And even to change ones way of life, such as clothing, job, material possessions etc can take time. I've seen stats and comments quoted from various quarters that suggest people looking to become part of a community, ease into it.

Bruderhof are open to visitors, normally, just have to contact them. Your nearest (?) would be Crossroad House in MN. Many who start down the path who are not culturally of those Anabaptist groups do not see it through. For whatever reason, so for anyone of us, "...make haste slowly..". Its certainly a lifelong walk and will take time.

I am very much pulled toward intentional living communities, many are active in their local communities and not shut up to the world but I would need to have a close look at the way they are practicing their walk and many visits.

I have no idea of how you live in a city such as Chicago, we only have just over 2.5 million in our huge state! But we see and here of many problems encountered the world over in big cities.

I hope you are able to get a vehicle soon as transport independence is an advantage.

As I look back on what I have written I realise that I have also counseled myself, some irony maybe.

Take care of yourself Justin and keep knocking and asking.

Sorry for the late response! Brother, I greatly appreciate your response and encouragement!!

Yes, I definitely have strongly considered that I may be called to stay in Chicago to form a community like that. I have tried forming a community like that here in the past, but it takes a lot of wisdom and strength to maintain a godly community. Due to my lack of wisdom and strength the community I attempted to form didn't stand. For me, I don't really have much support in my faith.

I don't have others around me who are further along than me to advise me or to look at their lives and examples and to learn wisdom about how best to handle different situations. I mostly have been and still am the support and encouragement to others to live this faith with our whole hearts sincerely and accurately, but I don't really have anyone to support or encourage me in my times of weakness or to give me advice or who can see errors in my life and thinking that I am not seeing.

I have needed believers further along than me for support and I definitely need that if I were to try to form a community like that here in Chicago again. I just not to long ago found out about the Septuagint and even more see how far behind I am in wisdom and training in this faith. I definitely have a lot to grow in before I try again to lead a community like that. That is why it is so important to me to find godly community.

But I need godly community with leadership and believers who are wiser and further along in the faith than I am so I can grow in the faith a lot more quickly than I currently am on my own. And with support from older and wiser and stronger believers I am definitely confident that the Lord could use me to for godly community here in Chicago, but without that I definitely know that I need a lot more training in the faith before I attempt that again.

I have asked Follower's of the way if they would help but right now they aren't able to take on another church build like that. We just have monthly correspondence by email and they offer advice and encouragement that way. But I know that it would be best for me to have more hands on mentorship and training rather than from a distance if I was to work with Followers of the way toward a church plant in Chicago. So that is the difficulty with that.

I am growing and gaining a lot of wisdom and renewing of mind in the faith from learning the early Christian ways but I am progressing very slowly pursuing the Lord on my own. I am hopeful that the Lord will help me to get a car soon to be able to make that travel to the community that He will have me to be a part of.

And haha Chicago is a very tough city but it is an amazing city to represent and preach Christ in. So many different people from so many different backgrounds, such a desert of the true way of Christ that is making so many people all the more hungry for the real thing. Churches like Followers of the way would do amazing out here like they are doing in Boston. So many people here do want the serious and literal Jesus way of life, but lack the guidance for it.

I have met many people who want and desire that in my time serving out here. I would really love to see a church that takes the Bible seriously and literally planted here in Chicago and to be a part of that. It would impact this city amazingly. I am doing what little I can out here, as the Lord said the harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few, therefore, we must pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.

I know I have a lot of growing to do though before I could lead that, but I am hopeful for the Lord to set something up like that here. I just am pursuing Him with all my heart the best I am able to right now and am in anticipation of what He will do. Thank you so much for your encouragement brother!!

Good morning Justin and Judson! God bless you both. I've wondered about this topic for a long time--how we should live out Jesus' teachings about sharing/giving to one another and to those who are still in need of hearing and experiencing the kingdom of God. Have either of you read about Melania and Pinianus from the late 4th/early 5th centuries? Fascinating story. Here's an interesting presentation of their story: the other side of the needles eye (plough.com) — https://www.plough.com/articles/the-other-side-of-the-needles-eye. It's written by someone who is a part of the Bruderhoff, a group practicing Christian communal life for the last 100 years. You may have heard of them. Would love to hear more about this topic.

The Hutterites practice communal living and have no personal property other than their clothing, the items in their houses, so very minimal. There are many colonies in Canada and some in the USA. I would say that the communal living described in Acts is not prescriptive, but descriptive of how the Jerusalem church responded to the gospel. I don't see in the New Testament the same communal response in the Antiochian church or the other churches established by the apostles in the Roman empire (such as in Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, Rome, etc.) It is not a commandment of the apostles nor of Christ to live communally, but it is what happened to the Jerusalem church, a description of how they organized themselves after Christ ascended to the Father.