Music

@Simon Isaksson, yes, I do agree that they seem to have a very evangelical spirit. And some of that is good. But we must also be very aware when listening to groups like that because some of that can also carry over to our lives. And I also think that some of their music I would tend to stay away from because of the bluegrass/ country style that is very pronounced in some of their albums.

Now, I'm not saying that all of their music is bad- I only listened to a couple of previews- but we just have to use our conscience a lot. I really do not have any problems with other people listening to music that I would not listen to- that is wholly up to them.

Again, thanks to everyone for their large contributions to this discussion! I think that we are all learning (unless I'm the only one!). Does anyone have recommendations for music that they use?

Our fam really enjoys classical music and a singing family that we have really enjoyed over the last few months is the Marinis- most of the albums just have Dena and Joanna Marini singing. They have a lot really wholesome harp/piano/violin music with vocal accompaniment.

Find them here- marinimadeharps.com (you can get their CDs and cassettes on this website, also some books)

sorry- it's www.marinimadeharps.com-recordings

www.weaverfamily.com

Also a good group (if this link doesn't work, just look them up. They are available on Deezer, etc)

I personally believe music is for the glory of God and it must submit to His word (being right and true and accurate to the way of Christ). I believe music is a meditative source and fills our minds and hearts with whatever it is communicating so it ought to be communicating truth. The only way I see music used in the word in the Psalms and by Lord Jesus is to bring pleasure to God.

So I believe all music ought to be done to bring Him pleasure and joy and that is the kind of music that saints should listen to. I believe that can sound in many ways whether country, classical or contemporary but we must "test all things" as the scripture says and we must test what we hear and listen to. The guidelines I listed above are a righteous and safe standard for testing music that I personally use as my standard for what I will listen to.

I would like to share a resource of God honoring music. This is a website

http://www.scripturesongsforworship.com/?m=1

A sister named Esther Mui creates songs out of the scriptures. They are wonderful songs and are legally free to download because she offers them freely. If you check it out let me know what you think of these songs.

"And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Ephesians 5:18-20

Thank you so much for your contribution, brother Justin! That website seems like an extremely good resource. Scripture songs are really the best- you can memorize what you are saying while you singing.

So is Classical edifying because it doesn't have lyrics (at least most of the time)? You said that music should be to glorify God, which I heartily agree with. But can wordless music glorify? I would like to know your thoughts on this.

This is a family that did a really good job of putting a lot of scripture to music. This is one of their albums; unfortunately, it does not have a lot of scripture songs in it, but it can maybe give a little idea of what their style is.

I agree with you Justin. I personally have a problem with rap and some pop style Christian songs, they just don't feel right to me but that's a personal conviction. I like the website you shared. The music is lovely and based on the Word. Thanks for sharing.

You are welcome! And yes I absolutely believe wordless music can glorify God. You can absolutely sing and make melody in your heart to the Lord with wordless music. David played the harp for Saul and the distressing spirit would leave him. (1 Samuel 16:13-23). It didn't say he sang a song but merely that he played the harp. That definitely shows that wordless music can be of God being an example from a righteous man who had the Spirit of God upon him.

I definitely understand and respect your position on that! Rap music typically comes from a culture of pride/haughtiness, self-promotion, and rambunctiousness. It doesn't often reflect the Spirit of God in peace and humility and I believe that may be what doesn't sit right with you. That's for sure what doesn't sit right with me about it. I believe rap at its heart is poetry in music form.

If you take away the rambunctiousness and the prideful spirit of it and just peacefully and gracefully rhyme words to music and communicate your message it can be a beautiful source that I believe can bring the Lord pleasure when done from the right Spirit. We have to test the spirits whether they are of God. Typical rap music doesn't reflect the Spirit of God but I definitely believe there is some that can. Here is an example of one song that I believe does so.

(And it is very difficult to find those types of songs.) Let me know your thoughts on this one if you can.

Shai Linne- Lord of Patience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR7jJqf5w_c

Rap as a whole I would say is not godly. Just that whole thing of the rebellious and fleshly attitude that it connotates. And I cannot get the rationale of people who claim there is good in every genre of music- even rap. I don't know about you, but listening to that kind of music would be breaking my values and conscience (not meant to offend). Why do we have to listen to that kind of stuff when there is always better things to listen to, like Classical and a pile of other more edifying genres?

For me the answer is simply that it is more pleasing to the flesh, and so we go after it more easily than more godly music.

And it is not just the words that matter. Music that mixes ungodly tunes with godly lyrics, or vice versa, is widely known as mixed music. The kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world cannot coexist, and especially not when jumbled up into one song!

That was my opinion. Anyone else?

I must, however, admit that you would probably be coming from a different viewpoint than I; to me, that kind of music would seem very liberal, but that might not be that way with you. I see that if you would be coming from a very liberal viewpoint, listening to Christian Gospel and rap might not be wrong with you. I respect your view if it is that way.

I personally am not a liberal Christian. But I do understand that to some degree we have liberty in Christ. (Romans chapter 14, 1 Corinthians 10:23, 1 Corinthians 6:12, 1 Peter 2:16, Galatians 5:13, 1 Corinthians 8:9). I believe this is a matter similar to what is spoken of in Romans chapter 14 regarding our different preferences of lifestyle choices or activities in our faith.

I believe God has given us all different tastes for different types and styles of music and that gives us the ability to honor Him in different and unique ways. When a heart is purified by Christ and seeks to honor God from that purity it can sound different accross the cultures but it will reflect the same Spirit and principals though it may sound different. Every good thing can be corrupted and misused and made sinful when done by the hands of sinful men.

Of every style of music, secular sources have used them all for sin, and have twisted them and they can be evil if we aren't careful about our sources for what type of people our music comes from. That even applies in the classical genre. I personally believe that rap is a form of poetry that has been twisted but poetry isn't evil in itself. And I believe that type of poetry can honor the Lord when done from the right heart.

I personally am not strongly into rap music (and I personally do not enjoy classical music, I don't have anything against it, that's just my preferance and taste.) I mostly listen to gospel rap to help new believers who come from the rap culture to give them options if they want to find a similar style of music that they can enjoy and help them grow in their love and devotion to God without the constant pull to the wicked rap music that they had enjoyed before.

I myself was into rap music before Christ so I know how to listen to it and test the spirit of it as I am now a man of Christ and I know the word of God and the Spirit of God to be able to test different songs to find music that is really of Him that would be healthy for a person to hear. Rap music, like all music is very meditative and it can teach you truth and replay truth in your heart when a believer is sincerely teaching and speaking truth out of their song or worshipping God in that style.

I personally don't believe that every gospel rap song is evil. I believe most of rap and even most mainstream Christian rap is evil but I know there are some artists that are sincere and that really use that form of music to honor Jesus and promote the kingdom of God and I don't think that should be neglected if we are able to find such resources.

Dear Justin,

I believe that heavy beat in music is wrong. Rap is very heavy in beat, although it is not the only type of music that has heavy beat. The beat tends to cater to the flesh. Not that all beat is wrong, though. And to mix good lyrics with a sensational tune or beat is, I think, like mixing light and darkness.

I respect your viewpoint. Thanks for adding to the discussion. That isn't necessarily enough for me to believe that it is all evil because, as you mentioned, it isn't the only type of music that has a heavy beat. Tamborines provide a heavy beat in music, is music with tamborines evil as well? Some gospel rap songs do not have heavy beat and are more about the rythm and poetic style of words. Spoken word is also very similar to rap using rythmic syles of words to communicate a message.

It just has a different name and isn't called rap. A majority of rap music certainly does have a heavy beat though. Is it wrong for different people or cultures to enjoy a heavy beat to music? We all have different tastes in music and I believe the Lord has made us diverse in our tastes that many of us may express His glory uniquely in many different glorious sounds, styles and ways. I personally don't believe that a heavy beat is inherently evil and satan originated.

I know that with this subject we can only really give each other opinions because the Lord has not commanded nor forbid particular styles of music in His word. So we must handle the matter rightly by the principals of His word. I stand on the fact that man looks at the outward appearance but the Lord looks at the heart when it comes to matters such as styles of music.

I believe that some believers (not all but few) can express true worship to God out of a rap song doing it from a right heart and I don't believe they have to follow the haughtiness and rambunctiousness and evil spirit of typical rap. I believe rap is a syle of poetry and poetry isn't evil and can be glorious to God when used from the right motive.

I certainly wouldn't mind being convinced on the matter. I would just need a good enough argument that all rap music is evil and only fleshly and that it could never and should never be used to glorify Jesus. If I was given a good argument and with good scripture basis on the matter I could be convinced. I believe discussions like this are needed and that it is important that believers should be able to have healthy dialogue on things like this.

There are many believers in the Christian rap culture and if it is truly all evil we would certainly want them to abstain from evil sources. But if it is good and God is pleased to use people in that style we also want to be careful that we do not attempt to restrict the work of God nor to forbid people of good liberties that God has freely granted them to utilize for His glory. I would love for us all to come to full truth on the matter and stand on facts rather than opinions.

But no matter what position we come to, even if we don't come to an agreement and have to agree to disagree we should still remember to handle it the way Romans chapter 14 teaches us to handle similar matters regarding "doubtful things." And still strive to walk in love pursuing the things that make for peace and by which one may edify another. So I am happy to hear you all share your positions and reasonings on the matter!

Ok see that is what I meant. You are coming from the more liberal background and so would not see gospel rap as wrong. Still, I respect your views since I know where you are coming from.

I really don't have a problem with what you're saying except for the fact that you are saying mixed music is right, an idea which I cannot agree with. Yes, poetry is not at all wrong, but why not read the lyrics instead of listening to the godly lyrics with a heavy fleshly beat?

Yes certainly. I really believe that there are believers in the rap culture but that does not make it right for me. I am not saying that listening to rap automatically puts you out of the kingdom, it's just what it can lead to that makes me scared. The whole theme of rap is rebellion. And a majority of that comes from the repetition and the beat. Take away those two and the endless chanting and you don't have rap anymore.