Skip to content

Add your phone number?

Optional. Nothing is sent unless you choose it.
The Historic Faith
Sign in

Jumpstarter 6 of 10

Ideas to help restart your discussion
Romans Commentary Chapters 9-16  /  Romans 9:10-13 the Two Nations from Jacob and Esau Part Two  /  Discussion Questions
All Questions
Question 6
The lesson argues “not of works” means God doesn’t require prior good works for initial salvation, but “good works are essential after our initial salvation”; where do you see evangelical culture either (a) using grace to downplay obedience after conversion or (b) demanding pre-salvation moral improvement as proof someone “deserves” the gospel?
Another way to ask: The lesson says we aren’t saved at first by our good works, but we must obey and do good after we’re saved. Where do you see Christians either using grace as an excuse to ignore obedience, or acting like people must “clean up first” before they can come to Jesus?

Direct Answer Based on Terry Clifton’s teaching, Romans 9:11 is not an attack on obedience; it addresses the timing of works—God does not require works before initial salvation, but expects good works afterward. The transcript doesn’t map this onto specific modern evangelical subcultures, yet it clearly warns against both excusing post-conversion disobedience and treating the gospel as something people must “earn” beforehand.

Support from Transcript:

  • “Not of works, but of him who calls” has been misused by “certain Christians… that God cares little about works, or… is even hostile to them.”
  • Terry calls that reading “erroneous” and says it comes from taking the phrase “outside of the context of Paul’s great argument.”
  • The context: Jews were offended that Gentiles could be saved “without embracing the law or even having any prior godly works.”
  • Paul’s rebuttal: God chose Jacob “before he had done any works… before he was even born.”
  • Key clarification: “Paul is not denigrating godly works… good works are essential after our initial salvation.”
  • Yet: “God does not require us to have good works before we receive our initial salvation.”
Discussion Follow-ups Where do you see churches subtly shifting the “entrance requirement” from faith to moral reform? Conversely, where do believers treat grace as permission to ignore Christ’s commands after conversion?

Jumpstarter 6 of 10
Back Questions Next