Hi, I'm David Bercot, and tonight I'm going to be looking at a question sent to me by one of my listeners, and the question concerns Papias. Papias, if you haven't heard his name, was one of the early Christians. He lived close to, uh, the year 100. We don't know his exact time of his life, but generally I think his writings are—he's viewed as having lived, say, between 100 and 125, somewhere in there.
So even though we don't have any of his complete works, we just have fragments, those fragments are valuable because he lived so close to the time of the apostles. So here is the question that was sent in. In the fragments of Papias, it is said that the early Christians didn't universally believe that all Christians would reign with Christ, or excuse me, with Jesus in the millennium, but instead that some would reign in heaven and in Hades, and Papias apparently claimed the apostles taught this.
Am I reading it wrong? What would the early church have had to say about the millennial reign here? And I'm guessing by here you mean on earth. All right, as soon as I read your question, I knew what passage you were referring to. It's one that's underlined in my original copy of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, one I've read over many times and have contemplated and have discussed with people.
So for you readers, let me—you readers, I should say you listeners—let me read this to you, and then so you'll know what we're talking about, and then we'll discuss it, okay? It begins, "As the Presbyters say," now Presbyters is another term for elders, so you could translate this as the elders say, "Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there.
Others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendor of the city." Now it's assumed that the city means the city New Jerusalem, which comes down from heaven down to earth, according to Revelation. "For everywhere the Savior will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see him." Okay, so stop here. So he's saying that what some of the elders in his day were saying was that depending on our own worthiness, our own standing with Christ, we will all see him in the resurrection.
We will spend eternity in his presence seeing Jesus Christ, but we may see him in different ways. There will be ones who are in heaven, and of course they'll maybe have a fuller view of Jesus in his eternity, and then others will be in paradise, a wonderful place to be, but not quite heaven, and then others will see him on earth because Jesus said that he would dwell here with his people on earth. So he will be in all places. Jesus is omnipresent.
So they will all see him, but they'll maybe not see him to the same fullness that they would otherwise. All right, Papias continues now, "But that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce a hundredfold and those who produce sixtyfold, and that of those who produce thirtyfold." You probably recognize that from the parable of the talents in Matthew 25. Papias continues, "For the first, that is, the ones who produce a hundredfold, will be taken up into the heavens.
The second class will dwell in paradise, and the last will inhabit the city." And again, we think that's New Jerusalem.
"And that on this account, the Lord said, 'In my Father's house are many mansions.'" He continues, "For all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling place, even as his word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each one is or shall be worthy." So it may have even been thought that you may not be able to even handle seeing Jesus and the Father in heaven in their fuller splendor.
I don't think even there anyone sees him exactly as he is in his full splendor, but as full as any creation can see Jesus and the Father as well. But others won't be able to handle that, and they will see him in a different form, similar, lesser glory maybe, in paradise. Now, for those of you who aren't familiar, there's a message here on the Historic Faith that I gave years ago on what the early Christians believed about life after death. And I really encourage you to listen to that.
And also, one on Christ's descent into Hades. And if you listen to those two messages, you'll have a better understanding of paradise. That paradise was a region. Hades was divided into two regions originally. There's paradise where, like Abraham went, where all the worthy people in the Old Testament went, and where all Christians will go and wait with the saints from the Old Testament period, that we all wait until Christ returns, and then there will be a resurrection. Hades will be emptied out.
The lower regions of Hades are where those who will dwell, who will not be expected to be in heaven or to receive eternal life. And Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus talks about that. Again, I discuss it in more detail in those two messages. So what is indicated here? Now, your question was, you asked if you are reading it wrong. I'd say you're reading it a little bit wrong because you quote him as saying that some would reign in heaven and in Hades. Well, Papias does not say Hades. He says paradise.
Now, I realize at the present time, paradise is part of Hades, but it's only part of it. It's not the equivalent of Hades. But once the resurrection takes place, then Hades is cast into the lake of fire. That is, it's destroyed. It won't exist anymore because it's a temporary holding place. Now, Papias seems to indicate and seems to believe that paradise itself would continue after the resurrection, and that some would make that their permanent abode.
Right now, it's a temporary abode, but it would be a permanent abode, a place that is incredibly wonderful, but not quite heaven. And then the earth would be made over again. It would be an earthly paradise with the city New Jerusalem coming down. And that's where others who were not as committed, not as spiritual, however you want to say it, that that will be all that they will be able to experience of Jesus. So other than that, I think you've got the basic thing.
But now you also make the statement, "Papias apparently claimed the apostles taught this." Okay, you're reading that wrong. He said specifically, "As the Presbyters say," and there was a big distinction when the early Christians talk about the Presbyters or elders versus the apostles. When they are talking about the Presbyters, they're talking about particularly the people in the genre or the era and time of Papias.
They're talking about the church leaders who lived in the time of the apostles and right after the apostles. They were not apostles themselves, and they may not have even known the apostles, but they lived during the era of the apostles, or at least during the time of the apostle John, if not the others. So he does not say the apostles taught this. Now, you might infer that if these Presbyters taught it, that they got it from the apostles, but even Papias doesn't claim that.
So yeah, we'd want to be careful about that. We could say some of the early Christians believed this. Now, there's some other things to note here. Now, I've been saying Papias, and your question said Papias, and the reason is because in the Ante-Nicene Fathers in volume one, that passage is included in the fragments of Papias, in the section called the fragments of Papias. But actually, what we've been reading is not Papias. We've been reading Irenaeus.
Okay, this is the quote from Irenaeus, and people assume, because Irenaeus does refer in other places to Papias, they assume that Irenaeus is taking this from Papias. It's a valid conjecture, but it's not a certainty. So just keep that in mind. This may not be Papias saying this. It could be actually Irenaeus, or it sounds like something Irenaeus heard and that he's reporting on. I don't think he's necessarily taking sides, but he's obviously not anti what is said here. He thinks it's a reasonable possibility.
So it's, you know, it's interesting. I don't know what to say. It wouldn't be my personal view, but on the other hand, I wouldn't say that this is impossible. There's a lot of things about eternity that we don't understand, and that we'll find out once that time comes. So, and yeah, a little bit more on the millennium. There's also a message I gave a number of years ago that's also included in the Historic Faith on what the early Christians believed about the rapture and the millennium.
And so that would tie into this as well that you might want to listen to to get a little bit more on this. But I hope that has answered your question. In general, you got things right, I think, but maybe a few misunderstandings there. And then again, we've all been thrown off by the Ante-Nicene Fathers into assuming that this is Papias, and it probably is, but it may not be. It may be somebody else, and it may be something from even later in time. But it gives us something certainly to think and speculate about.
All right, thank you, and.
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