The Bible says to “Try the spirits.” What does that actually mean? — Rick Rhodes

Lesson Transcript

Does the Spirit point to Jesus? Does the Spirit point to love? Does the Spirit point to truth? If it does, it's probably the Spirit of God. If it's not lining up with any one of those, then don't listen to it, don't follow it. Do what John says in the first verse: "Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but try it." Just because there's a miracle behind this story, this preacher, this book, whatever, does not mean that God's in it. Rick, you've been on the podcast before, and we covered several different topics.

One of them was spiritual warfare, which people can go check that out, but maybe these are related topics. I'm not sure. I'm curious what you'll say on this. But there's this thing in Scripture: the Bible says to try the spirits. That's 1 John 4, right? What is that even talking about? And so we want to get into that topic. I know you've done a fair amount of teaching on this, and so how would you respond to that? When it says in 1 John 4, "Try the spirits," what even is that? Yeah.

First, you mentioned spiritual warfare. This is different in the sense that this is just discerning: is this of God or is it not? And the reason I'm passionate about this subject, and I've done some teaching to develop a series on it, is because of the amount of voices out there today that say, you know, "The Holy Spirit said this," or, "God spoke to me this," and then you're like, "Really?" And you see where it takes people. You see the direction it takes a group.

And you're like, "How could God be in that?" And so it can be difficult. Like, how do I know if God is really in this? So that's what led me to dig into this. And the "try the spirits"—that phrase comes out of 1 John 4, where John starts this passage and says, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God." So right away he gives us permission, maybe even a license, maybe even a command: don't just believe every voice that says, "The Holy Spirit said." No. Try it. Check it out.

And that word means proof. Try the spirits. Prove the spirit. Is this really of God? So it's not a doubting, but it's a testing. We're going to make sure that this voice really is of God, that God is in it. So that's where that comes from. So let's get really practical, then. Let's say someone says, "I heard from the Holy Spirit, such and such and such." How do we know if that actually happened? Just to go straight to the practical. Yes. Yes. So John follows that opening verse in 1 John 4:1.

He follows it up with three tests that we can run, in a sense. Every message, every voice, every movement, book, teaching, whatever it may be, we can run it through. And in a sense, it simplifies. It makes it a way that we can see, "Okay, this is how you test the Spirit. This is how you try the Spirit, how you prove it." So the three tests that I see in there as you read through 1 John 4, the first one is this: if the Holy Spirit is in it, it's going to point people to Jesus. Okay?

So in verses 2, 3, and 15 of that passage talk about this. So it comes in the context of, "Don't believe every spirit, but try it." And then he goes on to say, "God's Spirit is going to point to Jesus." So if I hear a voice, a message, there's a movement, and I want to know, is this really of God or not? Well, the first test is, does it point me to Jesus? I go to a conference, and I come away saying, "You know what? They kept pointing me to Jesus." Okay. That's past the first test. This book, this speaker. Okay?

His Spirit is going to lead to Jesus. Now, this is something that I think is important for us to understand. Scripture says the Father glorifies the Son. Okay? Jesus prayed, "Father," in John 17, "Father, glorify thou me with thine own self, which to glory with I had with you before the world was." Nobody can ask that. Nobody can pray that but Jesus. Okay? The Father glorifies the Son. The Son glorifies the Father. And then we come to the Holy Spirit. Well, who glorifies the Spirit? In my— I never thought of that.

Yeah. In my study of Scripture, I don't find it saying anywhere or seeing the Father glorifies the Spirit or that the Son glorifies the Spirit. In fact, neither. The Spirit will glorify the Father and the Son. So we start at the beginning with, "The Father glorifies the Son. The Son glorifies the Spirit." I'm sorry. The Son glorifies the Father. The Spirit glorifies the Father and the Son. But then who glorifies the Spirit? Neither. And you want to take note of this.

A spirit that glorifies itself is definitely a spirit, but not the Spirit of God. You see, the Spirit didn't come to glorify itself. Why was the Spirit sent? To point us to Jesus, who is the way to the Father. Jesus said, "I'm going to leave." And his disciples said, "No, we don't want you to leave." "No, it's better for you I leave, because the Spirit is going to be with you, and he's going to point you to truth.

He's going to point you to me." So that's the first key that we get out of John in testing the Spirit is, it's going to point us to Jesus. So that's the first test. The second test is, his Spirit will lead to love. And John spends a good portion of that passage on love. Yeah. Yeah. And it's easy to get hung up on the words we say. You know, are they true? Is this right? But you've got to pay attention to the Spirit in which things are done and in which they're said.

Because if this message, if this movement, if this preacher, if this group, whatever it may be, if they're not doing it in love, if it's not being said in love, if there's not love in it, God's not in it. Like, Scripture is very clear on that. One word used to describe God is love. So if God's Spirit is in it, there's going to be love. So my first test, it's going to point me to Jesus. Second one, it's done in love. Points me to love. And then the third test is, it'll point me to truth. It leads to the truth.

The Holy Spirit and truth, the Word of God, have never been in disagreement. So his Spirit is going to point us to truth. It's going to help me understand truth. And you're saying that these three tests that you just laid out, they're right there in 1 John 4. Like, if you just read through that chapter, you're going to see him talking about that. You read through the passage, and you're going to find those three truths taught there. He spends a lot of time in love. He points out three different times about Jesus.

Any spirit comes that doesn't confess Jesus Christ, that's not of God. Okay? He doesn't say it's not a spirit. And so that's important to note. But when you try the spirits, does this point me to Jesus? Does this point me to love? Does this point me to truth? And if the voice, the message, whatever it may be, if it passes those three tests, then I think you can say God's in it. I think it's important, as you think about the test of love, that we know what true love is. Love isn't just, "I'll be nice to you.

I'm going to make you feel good." But true love is, "I care about what's best for you." And sometimes, in fact, often in true love, we're going to care about the end result. And so in love, I may need to confront. But if God's Spirit is in it, I'm going to do it in love. So the spirit in which we do it, which needs to be done in the spirit of love. Hard things can be done. Corrections can be made. We're going to do it in love. Okay. So that was the practical questions.

I'm assigning the healing from the Holy Spirit, right? Here's some tools, I guess you could say, that John is giving us. Now, let's take a broader perspective, not just the book of John. This is a big question. Yes. The Bible is full of miracles. So where are those signs and wonders today? And there are lots of passages.

I mean, I was looking through, okay, you know, Acts 2, and in Acts 5, and Romans 15, you know, Paul says, "I came and did ministry in all these places, and by the power of signs and wonders." You know, you see that in Acts, et cetera, et cetera. Where is that today? Great question. I was actually preaching at a tent meeting and had a pastor come up to me afterwards and say, "What do you think is the number one need in our Anabaptist churches today?" I get a little suspicious of questions like that. Like, okay.

So I just turned around and said, "What do you think?" And this pastor said this: the need for miracles. And I came away from that question like, hmm. I'm sorry, not the question, but just that comment. We need more miracles. So that caused me to dig in and look at that. So why don't we see more miracles? Exactly what you're saying. And this is a really important question. I want to take us to Mark 16 and look at this passage of Scripture.

And it's actually out of this Scripture that people say, "If we're not seeing miracles in our churches, then something's wrong with our churches." Like, we need to go where there's miracles. This is—I mean, that would be pretty much the key passage that's brought up, right? Is that Mark 16? And I mean, obviously there are others, but that's a key one. Because am I right on saying this is something Jesus himself is saying and leaves with his followers? Seems like that carries a lot of weight. Yeah.

So let's look at Mark 16. Let me read some of these verses. And it's really important that you take the context of Scripture. You don't just take a verse out. So you come to Mark 16:9. And I'm just going to read these verses, and then we're going to talk about these. "Now when he, referring to Jesus, rose on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons. She went and told those who had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

And when they heard that he was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe. After that, he appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went to the country. And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either. Later, he appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table. And he rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart because they did not believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

And he said unto them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe. In my name, they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues, they will take up serpents, and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them.

They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.' So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, he was received up into heaven, and he sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs," or the following signs. Amen. Now, what happens is people take verse 17 out of this chapter and champion it, saying, "We need signs and wonders today." What's verse 17 again?

"And these signs will follow those who believe." And he's saying that in the context of essentially what's another telling of the Great Commission, right? He's saying, "You need to go. That's your job. You go, you preach the gospel, and then these signs will follow." So this is in the context of Jesus rebuking his disciples for their unbelief. They rebuke for their unbelief.

And then he says, "Now you go, and as you go, these signs are going to follow." So we need to note, these signs are not the proof that you're a follower of Jesus. It's the going and the preaching is the proof. These signs will follow. I think it's important that we note a few things about the signs and wonders, or the miracles. Okay? What do they do? They proclaim God's glory. True miracles, true signs and wonders that were done in Scripture as we see them promote God's glory. Why are they given?

We get this out of the Gospel of John. You come to the end of John, and John says, "You know, many signs," and he uses the word signs or miracles in the Gospel of John. And in the end, he says, "many more did Jesus do, you know, so many that the world couldn't contain the books if we wrote them all." But then he gives us the purpose. The purpose is that people come to believe in Jesus. So I look at this passage in Mark 16. You're commanded to go to preach the gospel so that those who don't know will hear.

Signs follow. John says the miracles, the signs are for the purpose of bringing people to believe in Jesus. Okay? So that's the purpose. Where do they happen? Well, we get it from Mark 16. It follows in evangelism. It follows evangelism. Okay? Now, so the purpose, God's glory. I'm sorry, the proclamation, what they do is God's glory. The purpose, bring people to believe in Jesus. The place follows evangelism. Now, look in the Old Testament where miracles and signs were done. A big place is in Egypt.

A prominent story is Egypt and the plagues. Those were signs that were like, "Wow." Okay? Yeah. Those signs were for who? The Egyptians. And when the ten plagues were done, and by the way, those ten plagues weren't a random list of, "Let's pick on the Egyptians." They were a direct hit against all the gods of the Egyptians. So that when all of a sudden their sun god couldn't make it bright, you know what I'm saying? If you study those, and I didn't bring my notes on that. I mean, the Nile, right?

The Nile turning to blood. I mean, that was considered like the cornerstone of their civilization, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. So every one of those, if you look at those plagues, every one of those was a direct hit on the gods of Egypt. And it showed who? That the god of the Israelites is sovereign. And so those signs were for the Egyptians. Come to Babylon in the book of Daniel, where signs that were done there. Let me read you a verse out of Daniel chapter 4. This is Nebuchadnezzar speaking.

"I thought it good to show the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me. How great are his signs! How mighty are his wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation." It sounds like David writing the Psalms or Paul writing. That's Nebuchadnezzar. And he is saying the signs that God has done, they're amazing. The signs that happened in Babylon, they were for who? Not for Daniel, not for Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

They were for the Babylonians, that they would realize who God is. So I see, as you look at the command where the signs are to follow, it's for the unbelievers, that they come to believe. That's the main purpose. Now, I do want to pause and say this. Miracles or signs and wonders, I believe God does miracles out of compassion. And you see that in Jesus doing miracles, where he had compassion and he healed them. I think that happens. And I think it still happens today, where God will heal somebody.

Maybe it's just out of compassion. Like God can still do those same miracles. But the reason we don't see many miracles today, especially as we're thinking about in areas like in America or in places where we have the word of God, is we don't need the sign. We know who Jesus is. So if the miracles, if the signs and wonders were to bring people to believe, well, how many miracles does my church need? We don't really. What we need to do is we need to go to the lost. We need to go preach to the lost. And you watch.

When we get active in evangelism, you start to see signs and wonders or miracles. So could it be that we're not seeing this because we're not really doing evangelism quite like Jesus is describing in Mark 16? I think so. Let me give you three warnings that I see about people wanting signs and wonders before we move on from this. The first warning is this. When we seek signs and wonders, we make ourselves very vulnerable to deception. Why is that true?

In Revelation, it says, "In the last days, the number one way that the enemy will deceive is through miracles." So if I'm seeking miracles, if I'm seeking signs and wonders, I make myself vulnerable to deception because the enemy can and will use miracles. So just to say, "There's a miracle," doesn't mean that it's from God. So that's the first warning. If you seek them, you make yourself vulnerable to deception.

The second warning is when we seek signs and wonders, we're seeking something that God can do, but also something that the enemy can produce and will do it to deceive. So you have to really be aware of that. So the enemy can and will use miracles to deceive. So if I'm looking for miracles, that's how the enemy is going to deceive in the last days. And those type of things are happening. So pay attention to that. And the third warning is this, and this is a really big one.

When we seek signs and wonders, we show strong evidence of unbelief. So when the pastor of a church comes and says, "We need more miracles in our church," that's a sign of unbelief in the church. We have the word, we know who Jesus is, we're his children, but we need more proof. Really? That's a sign of unbelief. And there were times when Jesus didn't do miracles because of their unbelief. So here's where I—so where's the right place for us to expect signs and wonders, to expect miracles? I would say this.

One, in a place where God's not getting glory. Egypt, God's not getting glory. He does signs and wonders. Yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying. Because I think you go through Scripture and see that in so many places. Yes. In Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar lifting himself up. Okay. Mount Carmel. I mean, all of that. Yeah. So a place where God's not getting glory, that's a place where it's right to expect it. Okay? That better not be in our churches. Right? Okay? A place where people haven't heard the gospel.

That was a common place where signs and wonders were done, where the gospel wasn't preached. And signs and wonders were happening then. To say today that, "Why don't we see signs and wonders today?" We are. They're in places where the gospel hasn't been preached. And it's being preached. If we stay in our own communities and all we interact with is people who know Scripture, who know Jesus, no wonder we're not seeing it.

But have I reached out to the person next door who doesn't know Jesus and been praying for them and interacting for them and praying on their behalf? So a place where they haven't heard the gospel, and then actually that one goes in with the third one. A place where we're evangelizing. Because the goal is that people come to believe in Jesus. So a place where we're evangelizing, that's a place to expect it. The goal in signs and wonders is God getting the glory. That's always what it's about.

False miracles or miracles, signs and wonders done by the enemy, it's going to promote a man. It's going to promote a church. It's going to promote a movement. But then if we're running it through the test, quote-unquote, or whatever you want to call it, that you pulled from 1 John 4, where it's like, "Who's getting the glory?" et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, that's kind of the test. That's the way you could test through that, right? Yes. For sure. For sure.

So the means to God getting glory is believers making his name known to those who don't know. And signs and wonders are going to follow. To me, that's how I see that chapter, Mark 16. So our response is, for some it says, "I wish we could see signs and wonders." Okay. Go and preach the gospel. Say, "God, is there a person in my city? Is there a neighbor who doesn't know you? I'm going to start interacting and build relationship.

I'm going to start praying for them." And that's a place you can expect to see, "Okay, God's going to do something because God wants them to come to believe." Make God's name known to the unsaved. I don't want anybody to think that the only place for miracles is in evangelism or the gospel isn't preached. Yes, God does them out of compassion. Sometimes God miraculously heals a believer, and the church can be encouraged, can be strengthened through that. But that's not the norm.

And for people who promote these kind of health and wealth movement, and, "If you pray for this person to be healed and they didn't heal, it's because you didn't have faith." No. Because if that was the case, none of us would ever die. Right? We live in a fallen world. We all are going to die at some point. Lazarus, who was raised from the dead, the people who were healed, they eventually did die. Okay? So we're still on this earth. So to say that miracles are like the lack of miracles is because of lack of faith.

Sometimes, but not always. And yes, God, as a Christian, it's right for me to pray for a miracle. "God, could you heal my mother or my friend or whatever who's struggling?" Praying in faith, but knowing that God is sovereign. God knows best. So I'm going to trust him. And I think Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego's testimony to Nebuchadnezzar says it really well when we think about praying for miracles.

Nebuchadnezzar said, "And who is that God that can deliver you from my fire?" Their response was, "Well, our God can, but he might not. And it's okay." That's keeping ourselves in line. "Okay, God, you know what's best. God, you see my situation. You're able to heal. You're able to do this miracle, but you might not. It's okay. I'm going to praise you anyways." So that should be our response to asking for miracles today. But if we're saying, "I wish I could see more," go out and evangelize.

So I'm sure there's going to be some pushback here, right, on this, right? I think one of the things he says something to the effect of like, "This won't necessarily be the norm. People are going to get sick. This is..." Yeah. Yeah. Isn't one of the arguments made that, "Well, that's the whole issue. It should be the norm, and it's not." So that's a sign there's something wrong with our churches. Isn't that the claim that's made? Yeah.

Well, my thought is a church that's not actively involved in evangelizing, in reaching the lost, they shouldn't be expecting to see miracles. Okay.

Because the miracles and he's saying, "Here's where you expect them is when you're going out and you're preaching to those who don't know." And for us to sit in our churches and for us to have our programs, but we're not reaching the lost, it's like me getting up this morning and looking at my coffee maker and saying, "I want coffee." And I looked at the coffee machine this morning and I thought that I wanted coffee, but I had to get the filter, put it in. I had to get the grains. I had to put them.

So I needed to do something, and then I got coffee. You want to see miracles? Okay. What's the context of that? Go evangelize. And as a church, it could be the norm if everybody in the church is saying, "I'm praying for the lost in my community. I'm praying for the lost where God has us. We're pursuing them." And it can happen. That makes sense to me. So you're saying also, I think earlier you were saying we have to be careful that we're not just earnestly seeking all these miracles. That's not really the point.

The point is, if I'm understanding you right, is engaging with the lost, the glory of God, et cetera. Yes. Is that the correct way of phrasing it? Would you tell or would you say, "No, we should be careful about just seeking for a miracle?" Yeah. For sure be careful because the enemy can and will use miracles to deceive. So I don't think we should be seeking that. Okay. And I have enough evidence. I know who Jesus is. I don't need more signs to believe. So don't seek them. We seek God's glory.

And if there needs to be a miracle so that an unbeliever comes to believe, then God, do it. Do it for them. In fact, a short little story. While we were missionaries in Grenada, there was a neighborhood boy that was kind of known to be a thief. And one time I came back home, our family was out for the day, and my neighbor called over to me. And some things have been stolen out of the apartment below where our teachers lived. A digital camera was taken.

And we're like, "What's going on?" Because there's bars over the windows and it's locked, so people can't get in. And so we came back. Our neighbor lady called out and she says, "I know who's thief in your stuff." And she said the name of this neighborhood boy. He's the one that do it. I see him do it. Watch. There's a rod down here over the hill and a hook and that barrel. He's standing on that barrel. He reached in the window and he did it. And I went and looked and sure enough, there's a rod.

There's everything she said. It's like, "Wow." So I went and I got this young man and I said, "The neighbor lady, she say you thief in these things?" "No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it." He denied it, all this. And we talked to him. The neighbor lady's over there like, "Yeah, I see he the one." He's like, "No, I'm not the one." And I was like, "What do I do with this?" And without even thinking, it's just like it just came to me.

I said, "Would you be okay that if I just pray for you, that if you are innocent, that you'll be fine. You don't have to worry. And I'm not going to do anything. That you'll be fine. But if you're guilty, like if you are thief in our things, and the neighbor lady's right, if you're thief in these things, that God would make you sick until you repent. You okay if I pray that for you?" Like, "What can he say?" Right? So yeah, that's fine. Okay. Put my hand on him and I prayed for him. I said, "Okay, God.

If he's innocent, God, just bless him as he goes. He can have peace of conscience. But God, if he is stealing these things, would you make him sick so that he knows that you're seeing?" Amen. I'm done. He took off and the neighbor lady went in her house. And all of a sudden hit me like, "What did I just do?" Like I'm kind of putting God to the test here. But it wasn't premeditated. It wasn't to say, "Wow, look at this." The next morning, this neighborhood boy's little brother came by our house.

"Pastor Rick, Pastor Rick." I came out. He says, "I need tablet. I need tablet." So he's needing pills. He says, "Why do you need tablet?" "My brother's sick." I'm like, "We got him tablets for three days." That young man that I prayed for was sick. On the fourth day, he comes out walking the road to go to work. And as his custom was, he would call in, "Morning, Pastor Rick." So on that fourth day, he goes by, "Morning, Pastor Rick." I said, "Morning." And he's like, "Yeah, I know.

I know." It's like, "Wow." That's wild. And it was no surprise to me that several months later at our fall crusade, that young man gave his heart to Jesus. Now, why? Because he saw the power of God. That wasn't a premeditated thing. That wasn't something that made me look good or got credit to me or the church or anything. It was clearly God.

And it was a place where, "Here's somebody that doesn't know God, that doesn't fear God." And God says, "Yeah, I'll show my power in his behalf." What do you do in the case of miracles that have happened where it's not clearly tied to evangelism or to someone coming to faith? Like, yeah, I've definitely seen or had very close interactions with that here in the States where someone prayed for whatever it may be and that person was healed, say. Is that just God had compassion in that scenario?

Because those were cases where, I mean, someone was seeking for that. Like they were asking for this and God granted that. How does that fit into this piece? Because I get the piece of you're using it to engage the lost and reach out. And I think that is phenomenal. I actually hadn't really thought of it that way, but it makes sense in Mark 16. It's like, "Well, that is in the context of the Great Commission." I get that. What about when it's just in, I don't know what you would say, regular life, I guess?

Like, where does that fit into this picture? Yeah. That's a question that I don't think we can box up into a nice little formula and say, "Here's why God's going to do it. Here's not." Like, even the thing of, "Well, you have to have more faith." Oh boy. Yeah. So here's a story that kind of blows that theory out of the water. When Peter was in prison and they were going to kill him the next day, and an angel came and released him. And he came to the house where they're praying, knocks on the door.

And the young lady, Rhoda, comes and answers to answer the door, and she sees Peter out there. She comes back into the rest of the disciples and says, "It's Peter out there." And they're like, "No, that's not him. He's in prison." Like, "We're praying. They're praying for him." Like, "What were they praying for him about?" I'm guessing they're praying for his release, right? So they're praying for him.

And she goes, "No, I know it's him." Twice she had to try to convince them, like, "That's Peter." Like, "No, no, it can't happen." So they're praying for him, but they were already resigned that he's going to die in prison. He's not going to be released. And here God had answered this prayer. So I look at that and I say, "I don't know what to do with that one." Because it's like God worked in spite of their unbelief. Yeah, I've never thought of that story.

That's a great point because that's where this, at least from what I've seen, people I know, it really trips them up because it's like you pray for something. It didn't happen. You just didn't have enough faith. Yeah. And then it's like, "Oh." And then it feels kind of weird because then it's like putting it back on us. It's almost like, "Well, if you can just conjure up enough faith, I can make this thing happen." It's like, "Wait a minute.

That isn't kind of the reverse of what we're going for." Like, "I don't know. I just get really muddled very quickly for that." And I've never thought of that story before. That's a great point. So I put it in the box that actually I use the ABCs of prayer. God is able, but not required. Okay? So I'm going to pray. God can heal this person. So God, I'm going to pray that, but I'm not going to demand it. He's able, but not required. God knows best and I don't.

So is it best for this miracle to happen, for this person to be healed, for this situation to be changed, for this property to come to the church or for God to give us this financial need? God knows best and I don't. So I'm going to submit. And then God's in control. A better word is sovereign, but for ABCs, we're going to use control, right? Okay. God's in control and I'm not, so I'll trust. God is able, not required. God knows best and I don't. God's in control and I'm not.

So I'm going to bring my request to him. I'm going to say, "God, could you do this miracle?" But if you don't, I'm still going to praise you. I'm still going to trust you. And sometimes God's going to do it and sometimes not. But I'm still going to trust him. When you say that you're coming to God, like, "Could you do this miracle?" I mean, we all know that he could, right? It's a question of, "Boy, how do you even think about that?" That gets really complicated really quick. You know what I'm saying?

But some of this might just be semantics too. Yeah. No, this is really helpful. Again, that story of Peter, I've never thought of that before. And now I can't unsee that. It's like, "Oh my." You think of like, "Oh, the super spiritual early church and wow." And then they didn't even believe like eyewitness, like he's free. I never picked up on that. Okay.

So we've kind of drilled in on that one a bit because I think that's going to be that question, the signs and wonders is going to be one that people have lots of different opinions on. But to back it up a little bit, the next one I had would be, "How do we discern then between walking in the spirit and walking in the flesh?" Slight pivot, but I think this really relates actually to what you just been saying. Before we pivot on that one, let me make one more comment on this miracles and signs.

Ultimately, miracle signs that are done by God are to bring him glory. And my request should be praised in a way that God, you get glory for yourself out of this. And then trust him with that. So the bottom line in our praying and seeking for a miracle sign is God getting glory. That's really good. Bottom line, glory of God. Yes. Yeah. But yes, on this other one though, I guess it's bringing it more to our own personal walk. Like. Maybe I'm the only one, but it seems pretty easy to get it kind of confused.

I feel like I'm doing the right thing and then it's like, "Wait, actually, maybe I'm walking in my own selfish ideas." And how do you discern between those two? So discern between walking in the spirit, walking in the flesh. Again, a big thing is glory. So who's getting the glory out of my life? If I'm following the spirit, God's going to get the glory. If I'm following the spirit, what are my actions going to point to? Are they going to point to me or are they going to point to God?

So one who's walking the spirit, I have four E's that they're going to do. Okay? The letter E. The first one is, and it's fitting because it's what we're talking about this, evangelize the lost. To me, a sign of somebody walking in the spirit is if you're listening to the spirit of God, you're going to care about the lost. So evangelize the lost. That's to me, one of the first signs is somebody caring about or walking the spirit is caring about the lost. Secondly, is they're going to encourage the struggling.

And it's amazing how if we're walking in the spirit, God's spirit's going to prompt us to pray for that person, to call that person, to go over and just reach out to that person. That really is a part of walking the spirit. We're going to encourage the struggling. You're giving support. You're giving hope to them. And that type of thing should be happening in our churches all the time we're together. You see somebody, God's spirit point out, "You know what?

I think you should pray for that person." Do you listen to the spirit and you go do it? Walk in the spirit and say, "Okay, I'm going to obey the spirit and I'm going to go pray for that person." The third E is exhort the body. So exhorting is to strongly encourage or urge. Walk in the spirit. We're going to exhort the body of Christ. Urge them on. So that's a sign of walking in the spirit, I believe. And then the fourth one is we're going to exercise the gifts. Why does God give gifts to believers?

So we're going to exercise them. And as God's spirit is going to lead us to use the gifts he's given us. So 1 Corinthians 12, now there's diversity of gifts, but the same spirit. So the gifts that I have, I need to use those for God's glory. And if I listen to the Holy Spirit, he's going to lead me in using those gifts. So a prayer that we can pray, ask God to lead you to somebody to evangelize. God, show me somebody who needs encouragement. Show me how to exhort the body. Show me how to exercise my gifts.

And those are prayers that God wants to answer, I believe. And as we walk in the spirit, I think those are four, in a sense, evidence or practices that are going to come out. Now, there's a couple myths or misconceptions about what it means to walk in the spirit. One is the spirit's going to lead us to do weird things. Okay? So if you start walking the spirit, you're going to do weird things. To the world, it might be weird. To the lukewarm Christian, it will be weird.

But to the Christian who's truly walking the spirit, it's not going to be weird. Maybe unexpected. I think of Paul and Silas in prison. To the other prisoners, it was weird that they started singing, right? Definitely. Definitely unexpected. But they were walking in the spirit. I immediately think of the story you just told, praying for that boy. That was like, that's unexpected. Or I can imagine someone looking on and like, "That was weird. What was that all about?" So unexpected, but not weird.

Weird brings attention to ourselves. We're going to do something weird so people are like, "Oh, look at him." No. God's not in us being a distraction. He's going to work through us. He partners with us. But his spirit doesn't lead us to do weird things. You think about in Acts where Philip went and he got in the chariot with that Ethiopian. Okay? Oh, yeah. Good point. Unexpected. Yeah. No kidding. Unexpected. Who just runs up to a chariot like, "Yeah, I'll hop in there with you." And yeah. That's a good one.

He was walking in the spirit. And the spirit said, "You go over there and you talk to that guy." He goes over there. "You understand what you're reading?" "No. How can I?" Let someone explains. He gets in the chariot. He explains him. He gets saved. What happens in this? Evangelize. Again, evangelism. That should be on our heart to evangelize. God's in that. And you can expect God's spirit to lead you and to do these amazing things.

So all of a sudden this, so if you're this unbeliever who don't understand the scripture and you're, "I don't understand. Here comes this guy. Do you understand?" "No, I need somebody to help me." He helps you. It's like, "Wow, how did that happen?" Like that God's working there. So those spirit leads do weird things? No. Unexpected, yes. Not weird. The second myth or misunderstanding is the spirit's going to lead us to disobey the word of God. Never. Never. Like God's spirit doesn't lead us away from truth.

In John 16, "Howbe it when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak, and he will show you things to come." So the Holy Spirit isn't going to lead you to disobey the word of God. That's why I think we've seen a lot of things done that go contrary to the word of God or to truth.

And we're like, "We get like this to teaching on the Holy Spirit or to following the spirit because look what it led them to do." No, that's not God's spirit. If it's not, and again, that's the third test of those three tests. Does the spirit lead to truth? Does this lead to truth? Because God's spirit isn't going to lead me away from truth. And then the third one is this, and this is really important. A myth of the spirit gives us freedom to our flesh. Not true. Okay?

Those who are Christ have crucified the flesh with his passions and desire. If we live in the spirit, let's walk in the spirit. So God's spirit isn't going to give me freedom to do what I want in my flesh. Okay? And then the fourth one is this, that his spirit is given through a special experience. And this is a really prominent, common teaching that you have to have a special experience to get the spirit of to get the Holy Spirit. This is what Jesus said.

If you then being evil know how to give good gifts into your children, how much more shall the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? He makes it pretty simple. "God, I need your spirit. Fill me with your spirit today." It's simply asked. I don't need a special experience.

Now, as we think about this whole teaching and all of this, where a lot of questions and controversy come around the Holy Spirit and walking in the spirit and discerning the spirits, where a lot of that comes out of is from the book of Acts. And even the idea that you need a special experience comes out of a place in Acts where these disciples were disciples of John and they haven't even heard of this. So I want to say this, and people pay attention to this. The book of Acts is actually the Acts of the Apostles.

It's a record of the early church. And you can't build your doctrine from the book of Acts. That's where we get confused. That's where we get divisive and divisions are made. And here's why. The book of Acts is simply a record of this is how they did things. This is showing you how God was working and how people were coming to believe. But you don't build your doctrine on. If you do, you get confused. I'll give you an example. Yeah. Please do, because I think that's going to be controversial for some people. Yeah.

So when do you get the Holy Spirit? Before your baptize or after? Isn't it? Wait. Yeah. Isn't it after? Depends which passage you read. Yeah. Okay. Wait a minute. Yeah. So give me the two different ones. So you look in Acts, and I didn't put that in my notes. So I'm not going to be able to give you the exact places. But there are different places in Acts where the Holy Spirit came on them and then they were baptized. Then there are places where they were baptized and the Holy Spirit came on them.

So to say you have to be baptized first before you get it, well, it depends what passage. We look at living as a community. There's a place in Acts where they had everything in common. Everything is going there. Okay. So that's how we need to live. And groups live like that. Okay? Because you can get that basis out of Acts. Well, that was for a period of time. But if you read on in the epistles, we're encouraged to give and to give cheerfully.

Well, why is that even taught if everything is the churches and we don't have it? So there was a time where they all lived as one community. Everybody was giving what they had to the church and nobody was calling anything their own. That was for a certain time. But the book of Acts, if you try to take doctrine out of that and okay, now we need to do it. It's like this. This is how you get the spirit or this is when it comes. You're going to be confused. I'm not minimizing the book of Acts at all.

You need to take the entirety of scripture. What was taught out of that? Look at the epistles then as what was taught and don't champion one passage, one verse, or one story and say, "This is how you get the spirit of God." That's why there's so much confusion. But if you just step back and say, "Okay, let's watch. Let's learn from that." Now, what was taught after this? And you save yourself a lot of that controversy and a lot of that confusion.

So how do people listening to this practically get better at where we started this whole thing, trying the spirits or walking after the spirit and not the flesh? You've already given some pieces here, but how would you like to kind of encapsulate all this in? How do we get better at this? The first thing I would say is this. God's spirit working. God's going to move in ways and in places where he gets glory because he is worthy of all praise. He is worthy of all glory.

So walking in the spirit, trying the spirit, be mindful. Where's the glory going in this? What's the motivation behind this? And if it's to make me look good, God's not going to be in that. Is this really pointing people to God? God's in that. So who gets the glory? That's kind of the overall theme as you think about it. Who's going to get the glory? In Egypt, God got glory. Look what happened. In Babylon, God got glory. Look what happened. So who's going to get the glory? That's kind of the big overall theme.

But then just be mindful of these three tests from 1 John 4. Does the spirit point to Jesus? Does the spirit point to love? Does the spirit point to truth? And if it does, probably the spirit of God. If it's not lining up with any one of those, then don't listen to it. Don't follow it. And do what John says in the first verse. Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but try it. Just because there's a miracle behind this story, this preacher, this book, whatever, does not mean that God's in it.

Miracles, the enemy will use miracles, signs, and wonders to deceive. And many are going to fall away because of that. So that's a warning to us. So don't just believe it just because this message sounds good because there was a miracle, but try it. Who gets the glory? Does it point to Jesus? Does it point to love? Does it point to truth?

And if we're mindful of that as we read, as we listen, as we interact with different believers, different places, different communities, different countries, be mindful of those three things. Is it pointing me to Jesus? Is this done in love? Does it point me to truth? And I think that's a good test for us to be mindful as we think about this. In my interaction with non-believers, miracles or signs and wonders being counterfeited have been very destructive to God's kingdom.

So a friend of mine who's a Jehovah's Witness, in interacting with him, built a relationship as friends and talking to him, he told me of a healing crusade that was going on. And then he said, "Everybody that got healed was on staff. We know what's going on." And it's amazing how fake or counterfeit miracles, signs, how destructive it is to the kingdom of God. And it's happening out there. I've also heard of people who were said, "Okay, you need to speak in tongues." And it's okay, we're going to teach you.

And because they say, "Okay, just open your mouth. Now make sounds." And this brother said, "I'm not just going to make sounds." So then these people who had the spirit started belittling him. "Oh, you're not doing this because you don't have faith. And that's why." God's spirit will never belittle people. Those type of things should be warnings of counterfeit. There was a missionary who stopped by a place of ministry in Thailand and was struggling with back pain and stopped and asked the pastor.

And the pastor said, "What's going on with your back pain?" They went to prayer. "Why are you having back pain?" And this missionary said this, "Well, I'm one of the ones in their international church. I'm one of the ones that at the end of the service, we go up to the front. And when the pastor does this, we fall over backwards so that the people see the power of God that our pastor has." In Thailand, your churches are either cement or they'll have ceramic tile on their cement. I don't have to fall over backwards.

Very many times have back problems, right? It never occurred to this mature Christian that they're putting on an act to make the pastor look good. You never do that. God doesn't need help looking good. That's faking it. And that type of thing is so destructive. When a pastor says, "I'm going to do this." Now you act like you're following. God can knock people over if he wants to, and he will do it. I don't need to put on an act. That's hypocrisy.

And yet in the name of miracles and signs and wonders and walking in the spirit, having God's spirit, people can do this so it looks like. No, you don't need to do that. God is well able to knock people over, to show up, to give the gift of tongues, to do whatever's needed for his glory. It's always going to be for his glory, not to make a man look good. That's a very important concept for us to remember and understand in this whole thing of discerning the spirits.

And is this really of God or is this movement that's happening, is God in it? Who's getting the glory? Or is it making a man, a person, a church look good? It's like hijacking the glory almost or trying to take it for yourself. Exactly. Exactly. I have a missionary friend who's told me that. He's like, "Don't ever touch the glory. That's God's. That's not yours. It's not for you." It's like, "Ooh," because it's easy to do. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Amen. This is a lot to think about. This is really good.

I know there's a wide range of ideas on some of these things. And I'll be curious to hear what all people think. But you've given us a lot of pieces here from scripture. And yeah, I've found this helpful. Thank you for sharing today. And especially for taking on a topic like this that's maybe a little complicated or a little controversial in some circles and things like that. I really appreciate that, Rick. And yeah, thank you for sharing today. You're welcome. You're welcome.

As we mentioned in this interview, we had actually talked to Rick previously about spiritual warfare. And there's some intersection there between that and what we were talking about in this episode. So you can find that other interview linked in the description down below. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast and to tell others about it. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll catch you next week.