New Age Spiritualist Encounters the Power of Jesus’ Name Over Hauntings and Spirits - Enda

Something that really just solidified my faith was when I discovered that in all these hauntings, the only thing that I ever seen to resolve them was when a man came in and ordered them out in Jesus' name. A man of God would come in, and he would start telling these demons to get out of here in Jesus' name, and that would settle down the haunting. And sometimes the people would come to Christ themselves, and that would be that, you know. Um, and I remember when I discovered that, that I discovered that the name of Jesus was the only thing, because it seemed like it was so impossible to resolve every other way. I've seen people try so many different things to overcome this, these types of phenomena, but the only thing that they were ever able to overcome it with was the name of Christ.

And so I started calling on the name of the Lord.

Enda, welcome to the podcast. This is, uh, this is very exciting. I've been wanting to do this episode for a good while now. Uh, so for a little context, we're here in Ireland, which I believe you were, you're born here, you lived here, I believe your whole life. Uh, but you have quite the story, uh, of how you went from, um, a past life to where you are today. And we want to capture that for the podcast. So why, why don't we just, just jump right into that? Tell us, where were you born? Um, and what kind of environment were you raised in? Were you raised in a Christian home? And let's, let's start there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, um, I definitely wasn't raised in a Christian home. I'd like to say that I was, but I was raised in, I wouldn't even say a nominally Catholic home. My, um, my parents would have been raised Catholic, nominally, but, um, yeah, it wasn't really a part of their life. And so I was born in Castlebare, so that's in a county called Mayo, uh, and, um, spent the first three years of my life living in Knock. So if you've anybody that's viewing who's, um, familiar with the Catholic faith, they'll probably have heard of Knock. Knock will be like, uh, uh, a pretty, I think it will be Ireland's, um, most major pilgrimage site for the, for the Catholic faith.

Uh, but you said you didn't have much Catholic even interaction. Like that would be a bit unusual for here, would it not? Um, yeah. Or at least for that area. Yeah. And for that time, for that timeframe as well, uh, we're going back here, 37 years, I'm 37 years old. So back then there would have been a lot more people who would have been, uh, more serious about their Catholic faith. But, uh, my parents weren't. Um, the only person that I can really remember being serious about it was my grandmother. Um, so my grandmother was, um, uh, I would call her a very godly woman. Uh, I guess she'd done the best with what she had, with what was available, which was just the, the Catholic Church at the time.

But she was very serious about it. So she, she was a very prayerful woman. And yeah, that was the, the, the, the earliest into, um, interaction I would have had with somebody who was taking their faith a bit, at least a bit serious. And so, yeah, that was the first three years of my life there in, in Knock. Um, it seems to be that there are more people serious about their faith visiting Knock than living around Knock. Uh, you just so happen to live there, right? But the people who come, I think there's a million people that visit there every year. Um, so you would have been in some ways surrounded by Catholicism, but it wasn't a part of your life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much. Like, and you're all, we're all very aware of, um, how serious people take it in the village. Um, and, you know, we had a, the Pope, the Pope's visited there twice in my lifetime, I believe. I think Pope John Paul II would have visited probably when I was a baby, or if it was a little bit before, it wouldn't have been very long before. Um, and then this current Pope visited, oh, about, I'd say five years ago, there, thereabouts. So we were never, we were never really serious about it. Um, my parents split up when I was three years old. And so that was, that was very difficult. Um, I think the last thing on their minds was Christian, um, Christian virtue or Christian principles.

And so, yeah, we kind of, my life just kind of spiraled down the drain, I would say, after that point in time. My mom left, uh, my dad's house and just, she stayed with her parents for a little while and, uh, we, we just went then into different rented houses. And yeah, it was definitely, uh, definitely a hard period of my life. Yeah. How long was this, you're describing a hard period of your life? Like how long a period are, are we talking about? Ooh, a long time, because it, uh, I would say that would be my earliest memories of things going wrong, uh, about that time. And it's where I started to also experience a lot of dysfunction.

So I, you could say a couple of years later, I would have gone, I would have started in school and right from the very beginning, I was getting in trouble in school. Um, I was the kid that was always, you know, being bold and making noise and, you know, talking back to the teachers, et cetera. And so, um, I was receiving then that negative feedback from the teachers and then that would make me feel worse and it just spiraled out of control ever since then. I would say that continued well into my 20s because it wasn't a short period of time. It was a very long period of just kind of descending into more and more of a pain.

Um, and so, yeah, um, once I got into secondary school, I started to seek out ways to alleviate the pain, um, because I had a lot of pain, you know, and it would, I would express that as anger. I would express it as resentment and fighting and stuff like this. Um, to the outside world, I would have appeared to just be a very chaotic, bold child. But my inner world was, you know, the basis of it was pain and grief. And, uh, eventually I discovered drugs, um, different types of drugs and alcohol as well. And it just, even probably from 13 or 14 years of age, I was, um, uh, drinking far too much alcohol for even an adult, uh, because it helped me to feel not, uh, awful for a little while.

Mm-hmm. Is it kind of, was it kind of a numbing effect or that, that's what you were going for? Something that you don't have to feel that pain. Yeah, it's just like a, if I was to drink it now, it would feel awful in comparison to how I feel generally now. But back then it felt good. It was just, uh, maybe a removal of the pain for a short while, but it would always bring more over the long, over the long term. So that, that whole phase of my life went on for many years, I would say about 15. I would have started at about 14, 13, 14, 15, around that age. And that went right up until my late 20s when I eventually became a Christian.

And that's when, that's when that phase, that phase ended. Yeah. So what, what were some of the things, um, trying to think how to, how to even ask this? Do you feel like you were looking for answers through this whole time or was it, I'm just trying to cope with the pain? Yeah. Was there, was there something deeper going on there as, as you're searching for things or, or is that just not part of the story? No, there, there definitely was. Yeah. Yeah. I was, uh, I, I, I was looking for a higher meaning to everything. Um, I was searching for answers to, I suppose, the spiritual nature of life from a very young age.

Um, and so I ended up going down the road, funnily enough, like being surrounded by, uh, a very, um, high level of Catholic activity where, where, where I was raised and stuff like that. It's interesting how I didn't go down that path looking for answers. Yeah. I'm, I'm a little intrigued by that because that's, that would have been the point I would have expected would come next, right? You go down that, down that street for spiritual answers or meaning of, meaning of life, these big questions that we have. That's not what you chose. No, no. I, I, I was repelled by that. Um, I suppose growing up, I, I grew up in an era where all of the kind of abuses, uh, that were perpetrated in the Catholic Church in Ireland throughout the, the, the past 50 years, prior 50 years, they were starting to come to light.

And the media were really pushing it out there and just like painting this picture of how awful they were. And for me, I just felt like when I thought of the Catholic Church and all these things, I thought it was just, why would I want anything to do with that? That was like, I did believe I wanted what was good and I wanted what was right. Um, I valued good things. Um, you know, uh, I, that I, it's actually the reason I ended up getting involved in the kind of, um, spiritual, uh, paths that I did. They were all orientated towards love and light and things like this. That's kind of the new age that I got into.

And I looked at the Catholic Church and it's like all this abuse and all this stuff. I don't want nothing to do with that, you know. And I'm sure I got a pretty biased, a pretty slanted view of that from the media as well. I'm sure there were lots of good people out there who are, um, who are faithful in, in, in, in, in, in trying to be good Catholics and all that, but we had a very, uh, we had a really pushed, uh, pushed down our throats how, how awful they were. So I ended up getting, uh, getting interested in New Age theology. Um, so describe that a bit. I, I don't feel very familiar with New Age teaching.

Is that, um, would they call that a religion or is that a worldview? Uh, what did, what did that look like for you? Yeah, it's a, I, I would say at this point in time, it's become a very big religion. There's a lot of people who are wrapped up in it in one way or another. Um, and, uh, I can see now there is a demonic element to it because you have a lot of different, um, aspects of it, a lot of different brands, a lot of different flavors, but they all seem to come together and point to the same things. Um, first, first of all, that, um, that reincarnation is true. So that was one of the first kind of, that's one thing that they hold in common, so many of these different, uh, New Age theologies.

And we, we, we can, uh, I mean, we can touch upon where, where this originates. I think that's very important too. Um, the, the entire New Age movement, which, you know, it has millions of followers now. It's like one of the fastest growing movements out there.

It's bizarre. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's incredible. When I was young and I was following it, there was nobody into it. I felt like, you know, the first person using the internet, they tell their friends and nobody would know what you're talking about. And but, uh, but now, uh, it's like, I'm finding out all sorts of people that I know are involved in that now. So it's really spread. It originates from, um, the, from channeling. So channeling, which is something that I got into later on down the road, um, channeling is where a person is put under trance. And then when they're under trance, this, um, uh, contact is made with this, uh, you could say dependent on how you're doing it.

It could be your higher self. It could be, um, uh, ascended masters. It could be your, your over soul. They use all these different terms and you call that into the person and then that speaks. Okay. So I've definitely heard of this in very various contexts. I'm not sure if I've heard of it specifically for the New Age religion itself, but you're saying this is a pretty big element to involve. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So you would have encountered this New Age starting getting involved in that about what age? Yeah. Oh, I would say very young. I'm, I'm, I'd be going back to probably when I was 12 or 13. Really? Extremely young. Yeah. So this was a part of your life for a, a good period of time.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Right from, uh, right as far back as I can remember. As soon as I got a computer and I would have been, I would have got a computer and had it connected to the internet really at the early stages. Like I was the first one, you know, nobody else in my class had one and all this. And I felt like a bit of a nerd if I'd talk about it because, yeah, you're the only one. And it, it was very quickly that I discovered that whole, that whole spiritual kind of, those spiritual teachings. Um, yeah. And so I, I, I became very, I got into it in a very serious way.

I, I, I, I followed it, um, as, as, as good as I could. I really tried to be a good person. I really tried to, because that's, that's what's promoted. Um, okay. So I think that's an important piece then, because I'm, I'm guessing people watching this don't have a lot of context for what New Age, what do you, what would you call it? New Age spiritualism or New Age religions? Yeah. Um, so you're saying the intention, even though, you know, misguided is I'm trying to be a good person. I'm trying to, um, I don't know, find some meaning in life, trying to find spiritual enlightenment. Is that, am I hitting it about close? Yeah. Yeah.

So it's not like you're getting into this saying, I, I'm siding with, you know, the devil and I want to be evil. It's not that really. Exactly. And that's what makes it so deceptive is that it looks good. Uh, it looks like it's a good thing. Uh, I would have been opposed to satanic stuff, you know, that, that, that sort of thing. I didn't like that. I didn't like the fact that I heard that, I heard about that sort of stuff. And I remember when I heard that they would sacrifice animals, well, I had cats and stuff. And the thought of sacrificing animals to me was just, just felt, uh, like that's wrong. Yeah. And, and not just sacrificing them, but causing them to suffer and all this.

I had heard about, um, uh, you could call it dark witchcraft and stuff like that. Uh, would, would you say the New Age things you were in, that's pretty different then from what we would think of in like the occults and things like that? Or would there be overlap between the two? There's a degree of overlap at the edges, I guess you could say. Uh, but they, they're separated into two, um, opposing, uh, viewpoints. So you have the one here that's, um, and, and this is what I was involved in, that I'm a spiritual being and that I, um, uh, I have incarnated in this world in order to help the earth elevate its consciousness, uh, and usher in a golden age of peace and harmony and enlightenment for all.

And that's a very widely held view, uh, among people who believe that. Huh. That does seem, I, I don't, I'm not, I definitely don't know that much about this, but that sounds pretty different than some of the things you're getting in the occults, say, and some of the more darker sides, darker. I don't know if that's the right word. I think you know what I'm trying to say. I know. Is that making sense? Do you think I'm getting close to it there? Yeah. Yeah. I think when, when, when you think of the occult, you think of the dark side. That's just pretty natural. Spirit, uh, is it spiritism, spiritualism, bringing in demonic forces, witchcraft. Yeah.

Spiritism. Yeah. Um, there is that aspect to it. And we can talk then about, you know, Satanism, Luciferianism, things like this, um, which are indeed extremely dark, you know. But I think what's so dangerous about the New Age is that it's, well, it's disguised as an angel of light, right? Mm-hmm. It seems so good. I wanted good things. I wanted people to be happy. I wanted people to feel good. I wanted them to be healthy. And this, uh, had, uh, this, this was, um, posturing itself as the means by which we bring that out, Mm-hmm, as, as a society. Mm-hmm. So yeah. Uh, but I, I would have, I would have kind of overlapped into the occult from time to time.

Like, uh, when you know it's demonic, then you realize that's where the darkness comes. Uh, I used to do things where I would, uh, I would do divination. So divination is trying to predict the future, um, using one means or another. There's different ways of doing it. I would use, uh, I would use a pendulum and ask questions. And if it swung one way, it was a yes. If it swung another way, it was a no.

What I have to ask, was it accurate? Like, did it work? It told me I would die at 26.

So, and I was glad it was wrong. I was, oh, I can't tell you how terrifying my 25th year was. Wow. I was just, I, I, I genuinely thought I would, because at one point it had told me things that were like accurate and I was blown away by it. Okay. So, so it was accurate enough in some points to kind of convince you that, oh yeah, that this is real. It roped me in. And you see, that's why I, I now, I've, I've, I've, I, I firmly believe that there are demonic forces that influence these things. Mm-hmm. And that these forces have a degree of knowledge. You know, they could tell you certain things, but they can't predict the future, right?

So maybe they're making guesses based on what they know to try to influence based on the patterns of your life, et cetera. Yeah. And so it might actually be quite accurate. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and they're trying to rope you in as well. Like, this is terrifying. This was another thing that got me into the whole, um, New Age. There was a one particular woman and she was doing past life regressive hypnosis. She would bring up the, um, this higher self of the person and she would ask it questions. Uh, the person would go into a trance. Uh, uh, that was a very important, uh, part of it. And then this thing would speak through them and she would ask it questions.

And it was, it was, it was talking about profound spiritual things. And then what really blew me away about all this is then she'd bring the person out of the trance. That person wouldn't remember what they said. She'd have a recording of it and she'd give them the transcript and they'd learn that way. Um, and then she would go, she was an American, she's an American lady. She's, she's passed away since, um, but she would travel across the United States to another client, bring that person into a trance and that voice would come back up and pick up where it left off about the same topics it was talking about. These two completely different, completely unrelated people.

Oh. And so that to me was so compelling. I thought, wow, there's something real there. There's something real there. And, and now you would look at that and say, well, there was something real there, but it wasn't the right thing at all. Like this wasn't a good thing, obviously. Oh, sure. At the time, I can imagine that being incredibly convincing. Yeah. Like, you can't deny that this is happening. Therefore, it must, this must be true. And it must be good. And it must be, yeah, it must be good. Yeah. That was the funny thing. Like, so I could definitely tell it was true. There's some, there's some spiritual force involved here that has, uh, fairly advanced level of knowledge.

Um, it's, it's proof of a spiritual world. Um, now I became extremely familiar with her work. And I mean, she had books that were a thousand pages and just filled with information she was getting. And I became extremely familiar with her work. So familiar that I started to see contradictions. I started to see things that were being said here, but the opposite was said over here. Um, things that she was being told by these beings, um, that turned out to be false. Mm-hmm. Demonstrations of their cruelty of that there is a wickedness here, that these weren't, um, good beings.

And so that became extremely apparent. So when a friend of mine told me that those, um, what, because we, we, we became involved then, we started to, I got training to do that. And what is this specifically called again? Past life regressive hypnosis. Past life h, um, regressive hypnosis? Yeah. Mm-hmm. They would be claiming that they're pulling from someone who had died and, and it's, or is this something to do with the reincarnation aspect? Like it's the past life this person might have lived? Yeah. Is that what this? So, so that was, there was, there was a couple of different components here. Uh, one of them was that they would go back and look at these past lives that they had.

So there was, so it's really part of this reincarnation. Yes. It all kind of ties in and it kind of, wow. Um, but then it would also be, there would be higher spiritual forces that would be speaking as well. And that they would identify themselves as, you know, ascended beings, beings from the fifth dimension and this kind of, this kind of, this kind of stuff. But, um, that's wild. So you actually, you said you went and did training with this lady? Yeah. I, uh, so I done her course to become certified in doing this. And I began, at the time I was very heavily addicted to, uh, drugs. I was, yeah, I was, uh, smoking, uh, marijuana, uh, just an insane, an insane amount of it, 120 a day of these cigarettes.

I was 120. That would, you must have been smoking it like continuously. Yeah. Continuously. I'd be, I'd, I'd, I'd spend a few hours at nighttime rolling them all up and then throughout the day, then I'd just be chain smoking. So, um, that's, um, kind of further testimony, a testament to how wicked these forces that I was involved in, that at no point was I ever warned, stop doing that. Was at no point I ever warned that, you know, your lifestyle, the way you're living is bad and, you know, it's going to lead to your, uh, early demise. Uh, and I was, I was very sick. I was, my weight was plummeting. I was always ill.

I was always getting chest infections. I don't think, um, I don't think a person could survive very long doing that. Yeah. And at that point I was doing that and I was like, we could say, I don't want to call it a blessing in disguise, but because I was always doing it, I could never put my poor wife under a trance. I was, I was trying to put her under a trance and then she was trying to put me under a trance and I couldn't settle. Because you're constantly smoking marijuana. I was constantly smoking and I was making noise and, oh, whoa, with the lighter and it was, um, oh, what a bizarre twist, um, in the story there, you know, that, that marijuana is actually a thing that kind of kept you from that particular path.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you, you went through the training, got the certification, all of that, but it was never done to you and you never did it to anyone else. Right. Thank God. Yeah. Thank God. We were never successful. We were never successful. And it was about that time I met a, uh, he's a dear friend of mine now. Um, and he was, he, he wouldn't be, um, a Jehovah witness, but he would have known people who are, um, Jehovah witnesses. And so he had all this kind of terminology that I had never really been exposed to. He told me that you need to be careful what you're dealing with there. Them beings are, uh, that you're trying to summon are demons.

Hmm. Was that the first that had crossed your mind that these could be demons? These could be dark forces, not, not something good? Or, or did you kind of know that, but you just never let yourself go there? Yeah. I think, I think, because I had a lot of experience with demonic stuff, like we had a haunting growing up. So, um, wow, we grew up with, uh, that's kind of, I guess we skipped over a lot of that in, in getting to where we are now. But I knew that demonic forces, um, existed.

Um, but somehow I had just kind of switched that off in my mind. So I, to, to focus on this and never really wanted to admit it. But when he said it, I started to think, you know what, wow.

Like, and then all the different contradictions started coming to my mind. All the times they lied, all the expressions of wickedness, the bad fruits of it started to come up and I started to realize, wow, he might be right. So then you start connecting what you were involved in to the dark forces and, or yeah, whatever terminology you want to use, you know, demons, et cetera. Um, you mentioned a haunting though, growing up. So this would have been at when, as a child, was this like a, a, the place you lived or was this, yeah, tell me what you mean by that terminology there. Yeah. So, um, this, my first memory of feeling like there's, um, a blackness, a darkness around me was when I was very, very young.

My mom moved out from my dad's house and went to stay with her parents. And my first experience was there. I would, I would be in bed and I was like very young. I was like four or five. And I would just feel this blackness all around me and this horrible, horrible feeling. And I would get images of myself just being tiny and being squished and just really dark kind of stuff. Now, you know, you could say that was my imagination or whatever, but as I got older, I would have more and more of these experiences. But as well as that, we would also experience things knocking on the walls, knocking on the windows, you know, voices in the house, footsteps running down the hall when there's nobody there.

Like, and you're, is this at night you're trying to sleep or whatever and you're hearing footsteps and the time must have been terrifying. Oh yeah. Well, one time I heard the footsteps was, uh, so it was just, I think it was just me and my mom living, uh, together at that time. My sister was gone, my brother was gone. And my mom was out for the night and I heard like what it was as if, uh, whatever it was had no shoes and socks on and there's tiles in the hall. And I heard the footsteps running down the hall and stopping outside of my bedroom.

And I was so, I was so scared. Uh, but eventually I got up and I opened the door and there was nothing there. Um, but we had many experiences like that. My mom continued to have these experiences, oh, long after. Um, and I, I always get asked, so do you think it was some kind of delusion or schizophrenia or something like this? And, um, so, uh, why I know that it wasn't is because it was multi, it was all of our family experienced this. I remember one night my sister was screaming in the middle of the night because her bed was shaken. Um, and she was woken up by that. And so did you, did you go there and it's like, this is what had happened, but then it was over and what can you, what can you do?

Yeah. What can you do? You, you almost just kind of just say, uh, it must have been something else. It must have been something else. And you try and rationalize it away and you get on with things. Um, but how long did this go on? Because that seems enormously stressful and terrifying and all, all, all the words. I mean, you know, how do you even live with something like that? You, you don't. I mean, you're, it's on, it's like you're on self-destruct mode. Your, your life is going into a darker and darker place. I was suicidal for a start. So I had no regard for my own life. I used to, um, oh wow, I, I would do such awful things when I think about it.

One of the things I used to do is I'd get cans of gas and start inhaling them. And I would inhale multiple cans of gas and it'd knock me out and stuff like this. And I'd just be doing that in my bedroom with the door locked.

I mean, I look back on that now, knowing how many young people have been killed doing that. And I think, how on earth did I survive that? But I was very, very heavily involved with drugs and everything. I was always seeking, I was just such risky behavior. The amount of drugs I would take as well, um, significant enough to, you know, you'd hear people getting killed for, uh, or dying from having half the amount.

So there's very clearly something causing pretty destructive behavior in your life. And that, that really fits with what we know of Satan, right? I mean, CEO coming to kill and destroy. Yes, sir. And that was, yeah, you were, you were caught right in the middle of all this. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I got a super intense. I got a front row seat. So, uh, yeah, I've told, I've, uh, a lot of friends now who grew up in Christian homes and I tell them these things and they're like, what? I've never, I've never experienced those things, which is great. I want my kids to grow up. And when I tell them these stories that they're, they can say, I never experienced these things.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a blessing to do that for your kids. But yeah, um, uh, many such experiences as this. And my wife and, you know, it was a big part of her coming to the faith as well. Because, uh, uh, all this was just, I, I sometimes have difficulty putting it in chronological order, um, you know, with the kind of, uh, my exposure to drugs and stuff like this as well. There's periods of time where it's hard to piece it together. Mm-hmm. Um, but I began looking for answers. I began looking for answers. This whole notion of the demonic being involved in what we were doing. And, you know, me finally just, I guess you could say the chickens coming home to roost, like just admitting that, wow, you know, this is all connected.

I started investigating, um, hauntings, um, uh, sorry, researching hauntings. So there was a lot of people out there who were doing paranormal investigations, um, uh, and it's a whole movement. It's, it's, it's, it's huge. Yeah. And, uh, I, I don't recommend anybody do that, by the way. Um, but, and a lot of documentaries cover and experiences people had living in haunted houses. And so I began to do a huge amount of research on that. Uh, now, is this just in the course of the story? This would probably be after that friend had said, you, you maybe you should not be involved in this. Like this is not good. And so this is when you start digging into it a little more.

Is that correct? Yeah. I, I, I'm, I, I, it was around that period of time. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I was about sick of the whole, I suppose, denying what, what had happened up until that point. Mm-hmm. And I really felt like I was in trouble. Um, that guy telling me these things was a huge turning point for me. Um, I began to kind of, I think he gave me a Bible. Um, but I got my hands on another Bible elsewhere. I think it might have been on my phone or something like that. And I began to really research the Bible. Um, now, now, interesting. What, what was going on that made you say, uh, let's go to the Bible?

I mean, because you haven't had interaction, much interaction, at least with Christianity to this point. Yeah. What was that? So, um, there's, there's so many different, um, it's like it was coming at me from a lot of different angles, um, trying to piece together what was, uh, what happened when. Um, so, uh, him telling me this was one huge, um, kind of aha moment for me that I needed to step away from what I was doing. Uh, because he had said about Jesus to me and I had said, well, I know Jesus, you know, because they teach about him in the new age. Mm-hmm. Hold up. We lost a light here. I just, yeah. Now, how did that happen?

It's plugged in. Satan probably doesn't want us to say some of the things you're saying. Do you know that when I was, uh, when I was in, uh, researching about these hauntings and stuff, a very common phenomena is when they'd be in a house where there'd be a very strong demonic presence, batteries would just go dead. Fully charged batteries that never had problems before would just go dead. Just like that. Very, very, very common. So that's, that's so interesting, um, that you, that you found that specifically in your research. Um, actually, Carl, um, maybe we should even just keep this in the episode because this might actually be relevant to, you know, I mean, to what we're talking about.

Like that's wild that you experienced or you saw that in your research. This is a thing that happens. Yep. And it's like, that's something we've seen here. And yeah, we dare not say, like, obviously these are things we don't fully understand. And, you know, of course not. I don't want to over, overhype something. But it is, I think it's a kind of a point to make that you have the physical world that we're in right now, but there we, we obviously know there is a spiritual side of things. And sometimes the, the separation between those two is very thin. Yeah. And sometimes the spiritual will break into our realm, so to speak. I don't, I don't have all the right terminology.

I know C.S. Lewis actually writes about this a lot in some of his work where he's like, sometimes, you know, he was talking about it in the positive sense, you know, God breaks into, to, into our world. I mean, obviously with Jesus, you see the, you know, you see where he comes into our world and we can experience him and see what he does. Um, but sometimes maybe the, the dark side also does that. Um, yeah. Anyways, not to get onto a money trail, let's go back to why you started reading the Bible to begin with. Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, let's, so let's continue on that process. So that seems to me, that's probably a pretty significant turning point for you in your life.

Yeah. Because that would have been the first time you were reading it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Uh, now I remember where we were. Um, so he had, he, and he started saying about Jesus and stuff. And I was like, well, well, I know who Jesus is. Because in the new age theology, they teach about Jesus.

But in the new age, yeah, yeah, a version of Jesus, I would say now. Um, probably not, I mean, not the real thing. Not the actual, not the Jesus that we know and love, but the Jesus who is just an ascended master who came, he elevated his consciousness just the same as Buddha, just the same as these other spiritual masters. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I, I, I spoke to him, you know, about how I view Jesus from what I knew. And he was like, no, no, no, no, that's not Jesus. That's not Jesus. Uh, and he started telling me what, um, his perspective was. And I was like, oh wow, I'm going to have to read the Bible to find out more.

Because I really, I really felt like I wanted to be able to debate with him on his level. And so, oh, that's so powerful. Yeah. Wow. It's funny how, you know, wow, God uses, uh, evil things to fulfill his, um, his objectives, you know, um, even it reminds me of kind of like, uh, Satan when he, I'm sure he felt so victorious when he brought Jesus to the cross. Mm-hmm. And it was his undoing in the end. And I think a lot, I have a lot of experiences like that. Like I think this man came into my life and I don't agree with, uh, his, um, view of the deity of Christ. Like I believe that Christ is part of the triune God, you know, the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I believe it's God incarnate. He wouldn't have believed that. But he did, he did spark that, um, he sparked something within me that began my investigation. Mm-hmm. And I began to, to, to, to research the Bible. And I had been throughout that period of time also, uh, studying hauntings as well. Uh, so this was kind of happening all around a similar timeframe.

And I would have studied, uh, between 150 and 200 hauntings. Like I studied a lot. I was like just in, in, into it. And I was going to get some answers to my own situation. And that is when I found out, and keep in mind that I believe this was prior as well. This would have been prior to my realization of Jesus. I think it's kind of hard for me to piece it together. It would have been in the extremely early stages, but I discovered that in these hauntings, and we're talking about serious hauntings, like we talk about the veil, uh, the overlap. Um, it can happen in an extreme degree. I mean, there was one, um, there was one, uh, you can probably find it on YouTube as well.

It was on one news station there, like Fox News or something like that, a report about something that happened in a hospital. Uh, the social services, uh, and some police had been, it's going to happen again. Ay, ay, ay. They're up now. We're back. While you correct it, let's just have a prayer and we'll keep going. Um, so you were just to get us back on track before again, more equipment issues. Uh, you were talking about in this part of your life, you're doing a lot of research on the hauntings and things like that. And then you were describing this situation in, I think it was a hospital with the, and the social workers there.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So yeah, continue on with that. Yeah. Um, uh, so, uh, in that particular instance, um, and this was witnessed by a police officer and a number of members of the social services. They had been called out for a welfare check at a particular home. And the mother had been letting people know like that, you know, our house is haunted, you know, there's bad stuff happening here.

And, uh, how, how that ended up with one of the children going into the hospital, uh, they testified, the police officer and the social services, that this child walked backwards up the wall on the back foot and sat down into the chair with an evil grin on his face.

Now, this is the type of thing that I was, uh, hearing so many stories about, extreme manifestations of evil, uh, in these hauntings. And I don't want to say that without saying the next bit really quickly, because I don't want to make the devil appear like he's stronger than he is.

Something that really just solidified my faith was when I discovered that in all these hauntings, the only thing that I ever seen to resolve them was when a man came in and ordered them out in Jesus' name. A man of God would come in and he would start telling these demons to get out of here in Jesus' name. And that would settle down the haunting.

And sometimes the people would come to Christ themselves and that would be that, you know. Um, and I remember when I discovered that, that I discovered that the name of Jesus was the only thing, because it seemed like it was so impossible to resolve every other way. I've seen people try so many different things to overcome this, these types of, uh, phenomena, but the only thing that they were ever able to overcome it with was the name of Christ. And so I started calling on the name of the Lord. Um, wow. And I started ordering things away in Jesus' name. If I ever felt the presence, if I heard knocking, if I ever heard kind of, if I got the sense that evil was present, I would tell it to go away in Jesus' name.

And it would. Um, I began to pray. Uh, uh, we, we often wonder because, uh, as we become more mature in our faith, people start to ask us questions about it and, you know, when did it come about and when was that tipping point? Um, I remember at one point that I, I did, I, I called out and I, I prayed that, you know, if heaven is real, if hell is real, and if you are the Lord of the universe, if you are the creator of all things, referring to, referring to Jesus, that then please, please, please save my soul. No matter what happens, no matter how stupid I am, no matter how many mistakes I make, just please just hold on to me, um, and save my soul.

Um, and I look back now and I think, wow, all of the things that have happened since then. So yeah, I began telling these things to go in Jesus' name and they would go and I began to pray in Jesus' name. I'd be reading my Bible all the time because at this point, so many things had happened that I was just, I was convinced.

I opened the book and I began to read and I knew it was true. It just meant everything else. Um, it just meant everything made sense. All the different experiences I had, all the interactions with dark forces. And so I was telling my wife about this as well at the time, and she was having her own experiences. That was, uh, she's my evidence that I wasn't crazy, uh, in regards to the haunting stuff. Because after my sister passed away, um, about 10 years ago, uh, it would have been 10 years ago or I'm not sure. Uh, it would have been sometime, it wouldn't have been very long prior to this, about 10 years, I think now.

And we went to stay with my mom, me and my wife, because we were very worried for her. And, uh, my wife experienced lots of things happen in the house. She experienced, you know, my mother shouting at me and calling me and then come up to the sitting room when I discovered she'd been gone for the past 40 minutes.

Um, she experienced knocking on the window, the blankets being pulled down off the bed, pictures being turned in her sitting room. And, um, so she can stay, she can bear witness for me that I wasn't, you know, it wasn't a delusionary thing that was happening to me. Because of course, that did cross my mind too. I used to wonder that. Am I delusional? Um, and so she was seeing these things happen. She had been having these experiences. And so as I was sharing the different things with her, she was also starting to believe and starting to pray. Mm-hmm. Um, and so yeah, that's, uh, that was the beginning of a whole chapter then of God taking me, uh, dirty and muddy after he pulled me up out of the mire and just start cleaning me off.