I Was a Muslim in the Middle East. This Is Why I Left Islam - John Ghanim

Lesson Transcript

And when I went to Mecca with this million of Muslims, you know, over there, I was, you know, walking around seven times. You have to go seven times around the house of Allah. I call it the black box. And that was the Kaaba you mentioned earlier. The Kaaba, yes. Yeah. While I was going around that, nothing happened. I was waiting. Allah, where are you? There is no any encounter with Allah. There is no any, like, spiritual or divine. Nothing happened. So I was looking to Muslims. I was looking to the house of Allah.

And I had that realization. This is not from God. This is man-made. So I give up Islam in front of Kaaba, the most holy place of Islam. So over the last 15 or 20 years, millions of refugees from the Middle East have entered Europe, come often through Greece and fleeing war and things like that. And we have one of those with us on the podcast. You used to live in the Middle East, John, and came as a refugee to escape a difficult situation. So we want to capture that story today on the podcast.

Tell me, where were you born and what was it like growing up? Tell me a bit of your background. So thank you so much for having me. So I am from Yemen. So I was born and raised in Yemen. But let me give you a little background about Yemen. Yemen wasn't a Muslim country. It was a Jewish kingdom. It was a Christian as well. There are so many Christians before Islam in Yemen. And when Islam established in Saudi Arabia, the founder of Islam sent his son-in-law to Yemen with an army.

And they converted the first tribe in the capital of Yemen, Sana'a. It's called Al-Himyari, in one day. And after that, the whole Yemen became a Muslim country. I mean, some Jewish people remained, but most of the majority became a Muslim. They converted to Islam. That's how I was born and grew up into a devoted Muslim family. So my family taught me how to pray five times a day, how to fast, how to read Quran, and how to do all the Islamic rituals.

I was really devoted and faithful to Allah because that's how I grew up. You know, my parents, my community, my friends, all of them are Muslims around me. So I never saw Christians around me or other religions because it's not allowed. Like, no other religion outside of Islam is what you experienced. It's not allowed in Yemen. Okay. Because in Yemen, it's basically Yemen, it's a tribal country. Yeah, explain that. Tell me more. So what I mean by that, it's a tribal country. Every area has a leader, a name.

Like, because, like, I have a big family. Like, if I tell you my name, it's like more than 50, like 20 names. So yeah, so we, okay, so it's a tribe. So, and every tribe has a name and has a leader. And it's very complicated. And as well, it's a family culture, like family values in Yemen. So that's how I grew up into this family. We used to eat breakfast together, lunch together, dinner together. You know, I was like growing up in a small village.

So I studied in different three schools, you know, outside of the village. So I have to walk like three miles every day to the school. And that's how I grew up. You know, our village is surrounded by mountains. It's beautiful. So, and when I grew up, my family chose a wife for me. Because I told you, it's a traditional, it's a tribal. So they chose a wife for me. And she was my cousin, my first cousin. And by the, when I finished my high school, they said, my name was Muhammad at that time.

Muhammad, it's ready for you to get married to your cousin. So we did the wedding, you know, the celebration in the village. And most of my family, they go to Saudi Arabia to work and to provide living for their family. So when they are like 16, 17, 18, they travel to Saudi Arabia to start to provide living for their families and to earn money so they can build a house and get a wife. That's the extremest dream in their minds. So they don't normally go to the university. It's very rare.

There is a lack of education. So for me, when I was married, 2012, I had two daughters. I decided to go to the university instead to go to Saudi Arabia. Ah. Now, what does it take to go to university? You said very few people did that. So did you have a scholarship? Did why did you choose that? And why do many people not go to university? Because, yeah, people, they want to earn money easily. Just work hard and get money as soon as they can.

For me, because my uncle, he went to the university, but he ended up in Saudi Arabia. So he influenced me as well. So I always dreamed to be different. So that's why I decided to go to the university. So I went to study business administration. So at the uni, I was practicing Islam with my friends at the, you know, students' accommodation. But, you know, by like second year, 2014, I was praying and practicing all the Islamic prayers. But nothing happened.

Like there is like a lack of connection between me and Allah. I was praying because it's a ritual. You pray five times a day, the same prayers. The following day, you will do the same prayers you did yesterday. So the same prayers, every day the same. So for me, I felt tired. Like, where are you, Allah? I don't feel you in my spirit. I don't have connection with you. I feel he's very far. I can't reach him. So I started to ask the leaders, the leaders in Islam and the imams.

I told them, you know, I have these doubts. And, you know, doubts in Islam, it's a big, big, big problem. Like, why? Why was that a big problem? I'll tell you why. Because when I start to doubt about the spiritual connection, the lack of the spiritual connection with Allah, I asked the leaders about that. And they told me, Muhammad, you're born as a Muslim, you die as a Muslim. There are no doubts about that. So you continue to earn your salvation by praying, fasting, and reading Quran.

And upon that, it's written in Quran, don't ask about anything. It will be bad for you. So it wasn't even an option for you, or at least the imams were saying, this is not even, we're not going to even talk about this. It's 100% obligation. You, as I said, as I mentioned before, you're born as a Muslim, you die as a Muslim. They don't think that Muslims, they should leave Islam. Even there is death penalty for living Islam. This is why Muslims, they are not easy to leave Islam.

Because there is death penalty for living Islam. Like if you leave Islam, they're going to boot you to death. So now is that, that was just in your community or that would be all across Yemen that that would be the experience? You leave Islam. Most of Yemen is an extreme Muslim country. Like when I look into Yemen, I compare it to Afghanistan. Oh. Okay. So you see for a minute, so a lot of our listeners are more, would be Americans and we don't hear about Yemen like at all.

Like until I started traveling a bit and doing some things in the Middle East, I didn't know anything about Yemen. But we know about Afghanistan, right? You know, because it's a very strict Muslim country. Of course, America's had a lot of interactions over there. So you're saying you would compare the two. You'd say there's similarities as far as like how strict it is. Yes, it's very, very strict Muslim country, yeah, Yemen.

And when I, when they told, when they shut me down, it was very hard for me because I have to submit because I have, there is no other options. There is no other options. So I have to submit because you will, they will, they will see you if you don't pray. If you don't, if you start to doubt more, they will call you crazy and they will, you know, arrest you or the community. Because there are three, three categories for persecution in Yemen if you, if you leave Islam.

One of the persecution is the community, the family. The family will persecute you. If the family didn't persecute you, the community. If the community didn't persecute you, the government. So you, so there is no way. So even if you would leave, you know, yeah, like if you would leave and go to a different village or something, it's still, that wouldn't necessarily. The same, the same, yeah. It wouldn't fix it. Yes. Wow, so how did you respond to that?

Like you have these questions and you're asking them of the religious leaders and they're saying this is just the way it's going to be, basically. Like you're going to die Muslim. This is, there's no other options, right? Like there's no other options for you. What do you do at that point? So that's a really good question. So I, because I told you my family, most of my family in Saudi Arabia.

So my father invited my mother to go to visit the most holiest place in Islam, which is called Mecca, Kaaba, the most holiest place of Islam in, in, in, in Saudi Arabia. So my father invited my mother to go to visit him and to, he will take her to visit the most holy place. It's like a religious, one of the Muslim Islamic players, pillars, one of the Islamic pillars. So because women in Yemen, they are not allowed to travel by themselves. So she needs a guardian. So my father said, okay, you will be her guardian.

Ah, okay. So I was okay, yes. I was so excited. I was the luckiest Muslim because to go to Mecca, because every Muslim dreams to go at least once in their lifetime to visit this. They call it pilgrimage, right? To Mecca, yeah. One of the most holiest places in Islam. So I took my mother, my grandmother, all the way to Saudi Arabia. My family came to see us. We go all together with them to Mecca. We dressed the Islamic dress. And I was excited, yes, I may encounter Allah there.

I may encounter him in a spiritual way. Ah, and were you looking for answers to your questions when you went there? Yeah. Yeah, I was so excited. And when I went to Mecca with this million of Muslims, you know, over there, I was, you know, walking around seven times. You have to go seven times around the house of Allah. I call it the black box. And that's, that was the Kaaba you mentioned earlier. The Kaaba, yes. Yeah. So, and, uh, while I was going around that, nothing happened. I was waiting.

Oh, Allah, where are you? There is no any encounter with Allah. There is no any like spiritual or divine. Nothing happened. So I was looking to Muslims. I was looking to the house of Allah. And I had that realization. This is not from God. This is man-made. And I decided to myself, privately, this is not for me. So I gave up Islam in front of Kaaba, the most holy place of Islam. Wow. That is quite the realization to have at the, like, in the heart of Mecca, on pilgrimage. And you give up your religion.

I supposed to encounter Allah. I supposed to increase my faith there. But it was the opposite. It was the opposite. Yeah, the opposite, yeah. But that must have felt like terrifying. Didn't it feel or strange? Because now you're, oh, I don't believe this anymore. What do you believe now? If it, I don't know if that makes sense. That's a really good question. Because I'll tell you why. Because I used to believe Islam is my identity. And every Muslim believes that Islam is their identity.

So that's mean now, okay, I give up Islam. I lost my identity. So now I don't know who I am. Yeah, who are you? You know, who I am. And it was really hard, by the way. It was really very, very hard. Like for me, like who I am now. Now I lost my identity. That's how I grew up as a Muslim. And I, with my community, with my family, my friends. Yeah, everybody you know. Everybody all my life. Yeah, everybody, your village, everybody. You would no longer fit in, if that makes sense. Like, it was really hard.

I couldn't, and the other problem, I couldn't share with anybody. Like I couldn't like turn to my family or anyone and tell them I'm not Muslim anymore. So after that, I, you know, when we finished all the, we visited the grave of Muhammad in Al-Madinah Al-Munawwarah, we went back to Yemen after that. And I remember when I went back to Yemen, my, my family, my friends received me and they looked at me. They said, you're a holy man. Because I was 20 years old that time. Oh.

And I actually was like from inside, I was empty. I was like, as I told you, who I am, what I'm doing here, what is my purpose on this earth? They would look at you as, wow, you've done this pilgrimage. You've seen all these holy sites and they're looking at you that way and you're looking at yourself and saying there's nothing here. Yes, it's a really big deal. Like to go to Mecca, it's a big deal for every Muslim. And you come away from it, the opposite. The opposite, yeah.

You know, this has actually just showed me that it's not even real. Yes, I went back to Yemen without faith, without like, I give up Islam, like I'm not Muslim anymore. But the problem is I couldn't share with anybody. And that was the most hard, hardest part in my life. And I stayed, you know, I kept it private. I couldn't share with anybody. And from the outside, I have to pretend in front of them that I was Muslim. And that's really, uh, really hard. So I said, I said like that for three years. Hmm.

No, not telling anybody, pretending everything's normal. Everything's okay. I had, like during the Ramadan, we had to pray. We have to fast. Uh, during the prayer, we, uh, like I have to pray in front of my friends, in front of my family, my wife. You still go to mosque. Yeah, all these things. For three years. Wow. So you mentioned, uh, the fasting and Ramadan. Uh, what's Ramadan? Ramadan is, uh, a month in the, in the, in the year. And which, uh, the Muslims, they, they fast almost 30 days.

And they believe when the Quran, uh, revealed to Muhammad in Ramadan. Ah. And so you're having to go through all the fasts and, and everything that goes with Ramadan. And you don't believe in any of it. Yeah. I, yeah, you know, it was really the, the most hardest time in my life. It was really dark. Because I couldn't trust anybody to tell them, this is what I feel. I don't know what to do. Mm. And like, uh, yeah, I start to doubt who I am. Like what I'm doing here on earth. What is my purpose on this earth?

Like, did you believe in God? Or were you an atheist? At that time, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't, or I wouldn't call myself, uh, atheist. Because I believed there is an engineer designed this universe. Mm - hmm. But how to reach him, how to know him, that's the question was. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess that would be called, you know, maybe like deism or something. You know, there's maybe an impersonal being out there that made everything, but we don't know more than that. You know, maybe that's how it felt, right?

Yeah, that's how I felt. It was like a gray area. Yeah. I try, I try to, to read about, you know, the, uh, you know, about Darwin, about the, what do they call it? The, oh, like evolution. Evolution. Yeah. And, uh, but it didn't make any sense to me. So, yeah, Darwin is an interesting read, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, he had some strange ideas. So, yeah. Um, so, wow.

I, I mean, I, I can't imagine what that experience must have been like, you know, um, especially not having anybody in your life that you can talk to about this, to try to find answers, to try to figure out what do I do now? Yeah. You know, that, that would be hard. Um, but also another piece of this story that's significant. Yemen was, it was and is going through a lot of turmoil at that time as well.

Do you want to talk any more about that with your, with your country and just the, the difficulties for the people of, of Yemen? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because again, like a lot of us in that live in America, at least we just don't, we don't hear about it. We hear about Syria or Iraq or something. And oh, there's a war there and we read about it in the newspaper or online or whatever. But Yemen, we just don't hear about the war there. Yeah. Um, yeah, tell, what would you like to share on that?

So at that time, it was, uh, you know, 2015, uh, it was a war between Saudi Arabia and Yemen and Houthis, you know, uh, Houthis, I don't know how to tell. Oh yeah, Houthis are things that we, yeah, how we would say it in English. So they take over the capital of Yemen. It was a collapse in Yemen and, uh, you mean like the government collapsed? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And, uh, Saudi Arabia intervened, you know, they start to, they, they, they, they have a campaign against these Houthis.

So they start to target all the military, uh, bases in, in Yemen. And Yemen went through starvation and, uh, it was war between the South and the North and between tribes because they told it's very complicated. Tribe fight other tribe and it was really, really hard. And still to tell today still it's an unstable country. And, uh, how many people killed during this, during this war? Almost 355,000. And the media, they don't talk about it. Yeah. That's a lot of numbers. Yeah, it's a lot of people. Yeah.

Like, and, and it's still going on, right? Still a good day. Yeah. Unstable country. Actually, Houthis, they take more over, uh, most of the, uh, the north of Yemen and, uh, the south of Yemen. It's another government. It's, it's a very, it's a mess. Yeah, yeah. It's a very messed up country. Hmm. That must have been hard to see that happen to your country. Yes. All that conflict. I was shooting that time. So actually, you know, I managed to, to, to flee from Yemen in 2017. Why I left Yemen, actually?

I left Yemen because I have a family in the US. So I left, uh, because I have a family in the US and, uh, my auntie, she has, uh, she has a husband, uh, from the US. Well, he's a Yemeni American. Hmm. So he married her and he invited her to go to the US. But in order to go to the US, he needed a, like a visa, like a reunion visa or a family reunion visa. Because of the war, the US embassy fled from Yemen. All the embassies basically. Yeah. Because it was unsafe for them to stay in Yemen.

So in order to get her visa, she, she needed to, to go to other countries to get her visa. So, so she needed a guardian. So they chose me, my family chose me to be her guardian. Hmm. That's how I left Yemen. But, but like practically, how did that work? I mean, so you were able to get a visa to where then? To leave? So Yibuti. So we went to, actually that time it wasn't like a flight. So we actually went by the sea from Aden, you know, the, the southern part. You went by the sea? Yeah, yeah. In a small boat, yeah.

What? Was there no airplanes? Like, were they? Yeah, at the time it was shut down, yeah. Yeah. So I was thinking there was a time there for a while, like there were no planes that could fly in and out of Yemen because of the war. Yes. So you experienced that. Like you took a boat across, well, I guess that would be the Red Sea. The Red Sea to Djibouti. And Djibouti would be in Africa, like north of Somalia, I believe. Yes. Which actually those are fairly close, right? It's just a short waterway in between.

Yeah, but because it's a small boat, it took us 24 hours. Oh, wow. Wow. It was really, uh, it was a really difficult, uh, journey, yeah. So you go there and you say you're with your aunt. So she's able to. Yeah, I was a guardian and because she needed to get her visa from the US embassy. So we went to the, you know, Djibouti. She got her visa in six weeks, basically. And her husband came to collect her from the US. That time I couldn't go to the US because it's not easy to get a visa for me.

Especially that time it was, uh, you know, during, uh, Trump, uh, you know, administration. They shut all that down, didn't they? And yeah, banned Yemenis from entering the US. Wow. But my auntie was like an exception, uh, visa, I think, because it was before that. So she was, she managed to, to be granted. But now you're stuck. In Djibouti. Yeah. Um, but your intention was to leave Yemen. So did your family know that you were leaving? Did your community, did they know?

Yeah, basically my family thought that I will, I will, you know, drop my family, my auntie to Djibouti and, uh, go back to Yemen. Wow. But they, because they don't know that I was ex-Muslim, I don't believe in Islam anymore. So I decided not to go back to Yemen because they gave me some money. So I used this money. I said, okay, I said to myself, I'm going to start a new life. Hmm. So I traveled, uh, Qatar, Malaysia, Malaysia, uh, Singapore. I went back to Malaysia because I wanted to start a new life there.

But I couldn't get like a working visa. You're saying Malaysia that you couldn't get the, the visa there? Yeah, the working visa. They give you like three months' tourist visa. And it was unusual for Yemen. Because, because Yemenis, they don't, the most of the countries, they don't accept Yemenis because it's an unstable country. Right. Because if you're, yeah, I mean, Yemen is tearing itself apart, so to speak. There's a war, there's a civil war, and then there's other entities coming in and fighting.

There's a lot of, you know, terrorism and all this stuff. Yeah, tourism, many things, many things. So Yemen, it's on the blacklist. Oh. But Malaysia was one place you were able to go then. Yes. So really, once you leave the country, you're just looking for, how do I get out of here, basically? Where can I go? And that was the only option was Malaysia, Malaysia. Mm-hmm. That would be so difficult, though, trying to find, like, where can I live? Like, where can I go? When can I start again?

When can I start a new life and support my family at least? And, and feeling stuck at the same time, right? Because there's so few options for you at that point. Very few. There is me sometimes, well, I'll tell you what happened. Well, I was in Malaysia, uh, Malaysia, and I, um, I couldn't get a working visa. So it was hard for me to go back to the old life because I don't want to go back to Yemen. I don't want to go back to Islam anymore.

Uh, I don't, I want to like experience like freedom and, uh, find my own way to God. Mm-hmm. So I decided, okay, I tried to apply for different countries for visa. But as I told you, Yemen is on the blacklist every time. Boom, they reject my visa, my applications. It was so hard for me. Mm-hmm. And some, some of the embassies I go to, the embassy, the security will tell me, where are you from? Oh, I'm from Yemen. Oh, you are not allowed. Wow. It was so hard. Yeah. That would get discouraging. Very, very.

It was like I, I was hopeless. I say, I was like, where should I go? And I need, I, I should leave the country, the Malaysia, because they give me only three months. And because I, I went to Singapore, I came back, they give me another three months. So you need to leave the country after the, when the, your, your three months finished. You need to leave, you need to, to, to, to leave the country. So you're out of options. Where do you go? So out of options, it was so hard.

So I heard about, uh, Syrian people traveling from Syria to, uh, Turkey. And from Turkey to Greece, Europe. Mm-hmm. Uh, so that video is on YouTube. So I get some connections and, uh, and, uh, because another option, Yemenis at that time, they, uh, they, they, they, they have option to go to Iran as well. Ah. So I traveled from Malaysia to Iran. And from Iran, I skipped to Turkey. How did you, did you go by land then? Like, yes, because I couldn't get a Turkish visa. Mm-hmm.

And I have to go through the border, through like, uh, it was very hard. I was arrested three times. I was beaten by the police. Oh, wow. By the, yeah, by the Turkish police. They sent me back many times to, to Iran. And it was midnight. It was crazy. I was crying. Where are you, God? Where are you, God? I saw death in front of my eyes. Mm-hmm. Like, I'll never do it again. Mm-hmm. And like other people that were trying to escape as well.

Yeah, so many people, so many people from Afghanistan, from Kurdistan, from many countries. Mm-hmm. So you will see like many, many people over there. Mm-hmm. But it was so hard. It was, but I managed to enter to Turkey. Mm-hmm. How long did that take though? Getting from Iran through Turkey. So it took us three days to, to get across the border or, yeah, yeah, because we tried many times and, uh, and it was like, it was through the valley. It wasn't through the mountains. Okay.

And, uh, but every time we go to the Turkish land, the police will come and send us back to. Mm-hmm. So, but we managed to, uh, after, uh, like a few attempts, we managed to enter to Turkey. So, um, at that time, like we were 60 people and only three people managed to, to enter. And that was one of them. Whoa, out of 60. Out of 60, yeah. Oh my. Yeah. It was really hard, yeah. Wow. And from there, I went to, uh, you know, Istanbul, from Istanbul to Izmir, and from Izmir, small boat to, to, uh, Chios, Greece, Europe.

So I landed in Europe. Now I am in Europe. New life. So I felt when I arrived to Europe, it was really, uh, some, I felt something new in my life, something like a new chapter in my life. Mm-hmm. But it's still hard because I like, I don't speak Greek. I don't know. No, nobody. I don't know anyone. I have only one friend over there, so I met him in Greece. Mm-hmm. So he's from Yemen. Mm-hmm. So, uh, you left your entire life behind in, in Yemen. Like, you wanted to leave.

If you were trying to leave, you went to incredible amounts of effort to, to escape, essentially. But yet that still must have been hard to leave, wasn't it? To leave Yemen. Like you have family. Yeah, my daughters. I have two daughters and family. Yes. Yeah. It was really hard. But in the same time, you need to, I need to, because I don't fit in anymore. Mm-hmm.

I don't fit anymore to the, to, to Islam, to the society, uh, because, uh, you know, Islam and the society, the culture, the family culture, all hand in hand, all together, the government, Mm-hmm, the constitution, all together, hand in hand. Mm-hmm. So it's very complex, very complicated. Yeah. So you, you get to Greece and that must have been its own stressful situation because it's a whole new environment. You're trying to figure out what kind of life will I have now.

Were you in a refugee camp then on the island? I was in, uh, Chios, uh, refugee camp. It's called Vial. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and when I went to that camp, I started to meet people from Syria, from Iraq, from any other countries. And, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was a new chapter in my life. So I started to make friends. Uh, I met someone from Syria. And the life wasn't easy there. I was homeless, basically. Because when you arrive to Greece, um, you know, you will be in camp. And it was very cold. I arrived in October.

And I am from the Middle East. I never used to cold weather or, and it was, so they put us in that camp and, uh, I have small, I built my own small tent. And it was really hard. So I made this, uh, I became a friend to someone from Syria. And this friend, uh, we got, we had a good talk together and, um, he has a tattoo in his hand, actually. And they asked him, I saw him, why do you have this tattoo in your hand? Because as a Yemeni, we don't have tattoos. It's not allowed in Yemen. It's forbidden.

Ah, tattoos and other things. It's forbidden. Because it's a very conservative, like, society in Yemen. About women, about how the woman dress, about, about everything. It's a very, very close country. Mm-hmm. And when I asked, uh, the Syrian, why do you have this tattoo in your hand? He told me, he replied in Arabic, this is the cross of Yeshua, Al-Masih, the Savior of the world, Yeshua, Al-Masih.

And that was the first time in my life to hear about Yeshua, Al-Masih, about Yeshua, Al-Masih, the biblical, the biblical Jesus Christ. So you would have heard of Jesus through the Quran, through Islam. That's how I brought up. Had you ever seen a Bible or met a Christian? So that's a good question. Mm-hmm. Before I leave Yemen, Mm-hmm, actually, I, two things happened. Mm-hmm.

And these two things, one of them, I, because I was a student and we sometimes go to when there is a sale in the, like, clothes shop or, uh, like, a bookstore. So once I remember I went before I traveled, two months before I traveled from, I leave Yemen. I went to a store and, uh, clothes. And we, we met my, we, me and my friends and we saw a T-shirt in that store. And the T-shirt has the cross of Jesus Christ. I don't know how that T-shirt gets into Yemen. Yeah, it's the surprise. Yeah.

And my friends, they told me, uh, we, we, we challenge you. We, uh, they're like dress it and, uh, go outside. Okay. I don't know. Are you crazy? They're gonna, they're gonna shoot me. Because in Yemen, everybody has a weapon. Yeah. So, uh, so I told them I have an idea. I'm going to share it on social media, on Facebook, and I will write, what do you think about tolerance and to accept others? And, yeah. And so you did? I did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You posted it. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When I posted it on social media, I don't have so many followers at that time. I have like my family and some of my friends. I started to receive messages from my family. What are you doing? Where did you get this T-shirt? Uh, delete the post. Delete this picture. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we believe in tolerance, but we don't believe in the cross. Wow. This is, this is, this is Western things. Delete it right now. So they scared me, actually. So I didn't delete it. There is a setting on Facebook so you can hide it.

So I make it private. Mm-hmm. I don't know why I did that. Mm-hmm. And the second, uh, event happened. We went to a secondhand, uh, bookstore and I bought some books. And I saw the Bible secondhand, the New Testament. Really? Al-Injil. That would be very rare, though. Very rare. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How, I wonder how that happened. It was a seasonal, like a library. Mm-hmm. So when I went there, I saw it and I was like, and I bought it, by the way. You bought it? Okay. But I was scared to read it. I didn't read it.

So I never heard about Yeshua. Yeshua. Did, so, and you left it when you left Yemen? I had it in my bag, in under my clothes, actually. Okay. In my room. So you took, so it did, you didn't take the, the New Testament when you traveled and left it? No, no, no, no. It's still, I think, I don't know. Oh, it's still in your, maybe they found it. I don't know. Probably somebody found it by now somewhere. Yeah. Back in your country. Maybe they burn it. I don't know.

That, but that is phenomenal that you had those encounters. Two, two of them. Yeah. And then, but you still haven't, you haven't met a Christian at this point. You, you, you haven't read the Bible. You've seen one, but you haven't read it. Right. And now you meet this Syrian, Syrian, yeah, yeah, fellow. And so he was a Christian then, I assume. Um, is that how you first heard about him? So yeah, well, that's how I heard about Yeshua, Al-Masih. And he started to talk about Jesus Christ.

It was so nice to hear about Jesus Christ, but it gave me a lot of curiosity and questions. And I started to ask him, I never heard about Jesus Christ. He's the Savior of the world. Nobody told me before. So he actually invited me to go to study the Bible. He said, would you like to come to study the Bible with us? There is a German missionary. They teach the Bible every day, every week, once a week. So we will go together. I said, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it.

Let's discover more about this Jesus Christ. So I went alongside him to that Bible study. And it was like the German missionary. They started to teach the Bible in a coffee shop. And, uh, when they started to teach from the New Testament, so much information. Mm-hmm. And, uh, but it was, you know, so much. I couldn't get it. It was so much for me. You'd never heard any of this. Everything new. Everything new. Whoo! Because they read from the Bible. Yeah.

And, but when they said Jesus Christ is the Son of God, I said to them, I have a question. I don't have, listen, I am an ex-Muslim. I don't follow Islam anymore. I am, I call myself, let's say, agnostic. Uh, I'm looking for God. Where is God? And now you are telling me God has a son. And they tried to explain to me. I couldn't get it. Don't blame me. Don't blame me. I couldn't get it. I mean, well, the Trinity is hard to explain. It's very hard. Yeah. But the most hardest thing for Arabs to understand. Mm-hmm.

And because, and maybe we should clarify on that, because Islam would, would not believe in the Trinity. Yeah, because it's mentioned in the Quran. It's mentioned in the Quran. If you believe that Jesus, if you believe in the Trinity of Jesus Christ, Mm-hmm, you will go to hell. So basically, or if you say Jesus Christ is God, you are infidel. Yeah, I remember I read the Quran, um, at one point. Yeah, yeah. And, and it's, it's right there. It's like, you know, Allah has no son or something.

I mean, that's the English translation, I guess, but you know, Allah has no son. Yeah, has no son. Yeah, I know it in Arabic, but I don't know how to say it in English. Like, Qalhu Allahu, Ahad Allahu, Samad La Milad Allahum Yulad Allahum Yulad Allahum Yulad Allahum Yulad Allahum Yulad. Like, uh, Qalhu Allahu Ahad. Like, He's the only one. God is one. God is one. Yeah. And the only one. And He has no son. And yeah. Which, just a side note here, you've been quoting, uh, the Quran at different points.

You've pulled out different verses. Did you have it memorized? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Of course. You, you had to memorize the Quran like in school or how did, how did you learn it all? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, Quran, I, my family taught me, my mother, my father. And when you go to school from the first year in the school, they will teach you Quran. So you need to memorize it. And if you don't memorize it, the teacher will beat you. So you have to recite it. You have, you have to.

That would be a lot of work. I mean, that's, it's, it's an obligation. It's not like an optional. It's an obligation. So even though you don't believe Islam at this point, you know, that you still have the Quran memorized, you still have a lot of those mindsets, even though you don't believe them, if that makes sense. Of course. And so you can hear like Jesus is God's son and be like, I don't understand that. Like that, that is completely alien, foreign to what you would have experienced or known up to that point.

But they tried in a peaceful way to explain to me. Of course. They were really nice. And, and they said, okay, would you like to come to the church? I said, okay, yeah. And that time I never been to church in my life because as I told you, we don't have churches in Yemen. Mm-hmm. So I never experienced a church in my life. So basically I only know about the church through TV or movies. Oh. Where you all can see the groom and the bride came together and, uh, they blessed him in the church and they do party.

That's the only, the only knowledge about the, the, the church. Yeah, seriously. I mean, that, that makes sense though, you know? I mean, uh, wow. So what was that like? Like when you go to church for the first time? Yes. I've, I'm sure it was quite different than what you were used to. And I'm, I'm guessing it was quite different than going to, to mosque, you know, for prayers or something. Uh, talk to me about that. So I accepted the invitation.

I remember I went to the church and I remember that Sunday morning I entered through the door and it was man and woman worshiping. And that was like from the back. I was looking to them. I said, what are these crazy people doing? But you know what happened to my brother? I felt jealous inside of my spirit, inside of my heart, because I said it must be a divine power to unite them, to give them this confidence to worship their God, because I can see the joy in that place.

I can see it through the worship, through how they worship, how some of them, their eyes closed, their hands lift up. I was looking to them. Wow. You know, you know, something is like, yeah. And I, when they finished, the pastor was Greek in the church and he started to preach. He was very smart because he saw there are new people in his church. And it was his sermon translated into Arabic, English, Farisi, uh, French and other languages. Yeah. So they had translators there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, international. Mm-hmm.

And then he started to preach. And you know what he started to preach about? About sin. He said, we are sinners. We inherited sin from Adam and Eve. And sin separated us from God. And sin became a disease in our hearts. And this is why we need a Savior. And this Savior, his name is, his name is Jesus Christ. He came all the way from heaven to earth, lived 33 years, was crucified on the cross for our sins. On the third day, he rose again and he's alive. Mm-hmm. He's the way, the truth and the life.

He's the living water. He's the bread of life. He started to share many, many verses from the Bible. And he said, if you want your name to be written on the book of life, accept him as Lord and Savior, as God. Mm-hmm. I was looking, wow. And, um, I started to get more curious. I want to know more about this Jesus Christ. Mm-hmm. And I met another couple from Norway. They came to me. They welcomed me. Where are you from? They are retired. Where are you from? I told them I'm from Yemen.

I speak, well, I was speaking with my broken English. I have very limited, the time, very limited English. And, uh, they said, wow, from Yemen. And the, the husband, he ran and he gave me the Bible in Arabic. He said, this is a gift to you. Mm-hmm. He said, uh, we have, we have a missionary in India. They reach out to Muslims in India. And we have a copy of the Bible in Arabic. This is a gift to you. Mm-hmm. So he gave me the New Testament in Arabic. And I was so curious to read about Jesus Christ.

Why did Jesus Christ die for me? Mm-hmm. I want to know more about him. Mm-hmm. So I started to read, you know, uh, I decided to read the, the this, this New Testament. So I started from Matthew, chapter one, chapter two, chapter three. Chapter three was the baptism of Jesus Christ in the Jordan River. And while I was reading this, uh, chapter three, verse 16 and 17, where it says, a voice from heaven said, this is my beloved Son, whom I am pleased well. Wow. I thought, wow, God speaks from heaven.

This is my beloved Son, whom I am pleased well. Because it explains the Father speaks from heaven, the Holy Spirit descending like a dove, and Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Mm-hmm. The Trinity. Mm-hmm. And that is the most hardest thing to Arabic people to understand. Mm-hmm. And I felt something boom in my heart, like, like, uh, I believe the seed of faith. Mm-hmm. I was like more focused and excited. I continued to read chapter four and five.

While I started to read chapter five, the ceremony in the mount, which is the most powerful teaching in the universe, I started to read the Beatitudes. Blessed are the poor in the spirit, for there is the kingdom of heaven. All the blessings. And I felt the God I was disconnected from. I felt he's speaking to me directly. This is to you. I felt like this is to you from the scripture. Mm-hmm. I was so happy. I was reading them over and over, over and over. I was so happy. I was so joyful.

I felt this is applied to my life. This is what I want. This is what I need. And I continued to read chapter, uh, six and seven. And all my questions about prayer, about fasting, all my doubts about God, about how to worship him, how to love, how, because love your enemies. Jesus Christ taught us, I love your enemies. And so many things in the Bible, in the, the, the, that's three chapters, the ceremony in the mountain. I was so happy. I said, this is the God I want to follow.

This is the God, the God I want to give life to. I was so really excited to go back to the church, which I did. I went back to the church the following Sunday. I didn't stay at the back. I stayed in front. Like to be close to the pastor. Yeah. And, uh, when, when the pastor finished his sermon, he, he, he always, you know, invited people because he knew there are new people in his church. Mm-hmm. So he invited, he said, who wants to give his life to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior? I raised up my hands. Mm-hmm.

And, uh, and he led me in prayer to, for, you know, so I repented that time in front of everybody. Mm-hmm. And the prayer was like this. I am a sinner. Mm-hmm. And I believe that Jesus Christ came all the way from heaven to rescue me. He was died on the cross for me. And on the third day, he rose again. Islam behind me, agnosticism behind me, the world behind me, and Jesus before me. He's my Lord. He's my King. He's my God. He's my Savior forever. Amen.

I said, as soon as I said, I'm in, brother, I saw everything so beautiful. Mm-hmm. So majestic. I, I, I felt even light. I felt like I'm a new creation. Mm-hmm. I get that, um, excitement, that desire to read the Bible. Mm-hmm. I was so hungry, brother. So I, I, I really asked the church. I told them, I need the, the whole Bible. So they gave me, you just had the New Testament at this point. Yeah, that was the New Testament. And you were like, I want the whole thing. I know, no, no, no. I need the whole thing.

Give me the Bible. Give me the Bible. Give me the Bible. The whole Bible. Because I decided to read from Genesis to Revelation. And that time, so that, because that happened quickly, the German missionary left because they came for, uh, like a few weeks, maybe three weeks, I remember. And after that, the missionary from the US came to KIOS. And that was I-58. So they, I met them. So this German introduced us to this American missionary. And they established ministry over there. And I started to walk alongside them.

And they taught me the Bible from beginning. Wow. That is so much to learn. You know, how did that feel? Like you're learning all of this for the first time. That's from zero. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It must have felt amazing though. Yes. It was, it was a journey. It was an adventure. It was, it was so beautiful. I was, as I asked so many questions. I, I wasn't baptized, by the way. Satan way. No, no, no, no, no, no. I started to study with them. And, um, so many things happened in that period.

It took me one year, basically. Mm-hmm. Because what, what the thing about, uh, this missionary, they used to send like every three months, they used to send new family. Mm-hmm. So first I get to know new families. And everybody like bought something in my life. Mm-hmm. And all of it, it's for good. Mm-hmm. Because they came to teach. Mm-hmm. To serve. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I believe God sent them in the right time. Mm-hmm. Because I know they are from the Mennonite community, from the Anabaptist community.

And God sent them in the right time. Mm-hmm. So in God, yeah, in that period. So I get persecuted in the camp, by the way. Straight away. Because I want to share my faith with them. You're both, you're courageous. So we, I was going to say, because you, you give your life to Jesus very publicly. I mean, people know that. That was, that was in the, in the island. Yeah. In the church. And in the camp. Yes. Yeah. So people, I'm, I'm sure in the camp, other refugees, things like that found out.

So you're saying you got persecution. You get persecution. They stopped to eat with me. Wow. They started to call me infidel. They started to, yeah, it was a really hard time. I remember we had a discussion with, uh, with some Muslims because I used to live in the, I moved to live with the Muslims, like 10, 10 people from Yemen in a small caravan. Mm-hmm. And we used to eat together. But then when they found out that I became a Christian, persecution started. They stopped to eat with me.

So I, I was eating by myself. I was lonely. I was, uh, because they considered me unclean. And one, like, it was very quickly. Once I remember, I came back from the church that Sunday and, um, uh, a cute Muslim. You know, when I say cute Muslim, lukewarm Muslim. We say there is lukewarm Christians. There is lukewarm Muslims as well. Okay. Lukewarm. Yeah. Okay. But they call them cute. Okay. They are not radicals. Ah. So he came to me. He's very friendly.

He said, John, you just came from the church and you believe Jesus Christ saved you. And I told him, yes, I believe he saved me because I, you know, I don't want to deny my faith. I don't want to, I don't want to deny Christ. I don't want that. So yes, he died for me and, uh, I will go to heaven 100%. And that's give them when I tell that because Muslims, they don't be, they are not, they don't have assurance that they will go to heaven. Zero. Oh, wow.

So that, that was probably, that's a, that was probably a powerful piece for you then in your life. That assurance that I know God has saved me. Yeah. So, and, uh, he started, he asked me, okay, but you grew up as a Muslim. This is how he asked me. You grew up as a Muslim. And, uh, what, what, how about Muhammad and, uh, you know, the founder of Islam, the prophet of Islam. What do you think about him now? I told him he is like, um, he was a smart man, a military leader, like Al-Qadhafi.

And another extreme Muslim grabbed the knife and put it here. He wanted to kill me. How dare you say like that about, uh, Muhammad? Because, oh, yeah, because you can't say anything about Allah, but when it comes to Muhammad, they're going to die for Muhammad. Mm-hmm. And that was really hard. I was froze when he, when he put the knife here. I have another friend as well. He's, I think God used him to save me because he was as well a cute Muslim, a nice Muslim.

No, when I say cute Muslim, they are, they see everyone will, all the religions the same. Okay. So when, when this Muslim saw that he bought the knife, he wanted to kill me. He was really angry. He jumped, uh, he held him, took the knife, and he asked me, uh, John, leave. Because I changed my name into John. Leave. Leave the caravan. So then I called the missionary. That's what happened. They came to rescue me. They came by the van and they adopted me. So I started to live with, actually with the missionary.

You couldn't even live in the camp. No, no, I didn't. Actually, we, when I went to the missionary, I told them about the situation and they, they, we prayed the whole night for them. And I remember the, the leader, the, the pastor, he said, okay, let's buy them, um, you know, bless them tomorrow because I didn't take anything with me. My stuff is still in the, uh, with them. So he said, okay, let's go tomorrow to do some shopping for them, food and rice, chicken, and bless them. And, uh, he, he did that.

So he bought them stuff. So I called my friend, the cute Muslim friend, the one who rescued me. So he brought my stuff. So the pastor gave him the, he said, this is, thank you so much for standing with John. Wow. And this is a blessing. Was that hard to do? To get, to bless them like that? We are Christians. Jesus Christ, he said, love your enemies. And he said, pray for them. Mm-hmm. So then I, uh, yeah, then my, my life continued to be a missionary. And I wasn't baptized at that time.

So after one year, I decided to be baptized. I'm not decided to follow Jesus. No turning back, no turning back. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Hallelujah. Thank you, Jesus. So, but for yourself, did baptism seem a really big step for you? Yes. And that, is that why you wanted to wait until you had studied the whole Bible and things? Yeah, I understand.

I really studied like why, like why we baptized, why I studied from the Old Testament and the New Testament, how God rescued, you know, the Israelites through the sea and the, what they call it, the, the ark. So I connected all the dots, you know, of course with the help. This is why I told you I studied the Bible with the missionary. And they taught me when I finished, uh, the Bible, finished reading the Bible by the end of the year, I, uh, 2018, I decided to be baptized.

And I changed my name into John, a new faith, a new life, a new, Mm-hmm I was born again. A new everything. I mean, new everything. Yeah. Yeah. Like new mentality, new heart. Like you, you have changed so much from the person you were back when you were a Muslim in Yemen. You know, like the, the, the man who went on pilgrimage and walked around the, the Kaaba in Mecca, you know, to who you are today. Yeah. I mean, just think about how much transformation has happened in your life.

And, and that's, that's that it happened through the Bible as well. And it's happened through, uh, because I start like to do mission, to, to walk alongside the missionary, to live with them. I was watching their life. And that's, that was really like, it really impacted my life in a powerful way. I'm going to say that. It's impacted my life. So if you encounter any new believers, please help them. Because we come from, we have a lot of things from the background and a lot of problems.

It's not easy to, to get rid of it. So you need some people to care, Mm-hmm to love you, to accept you as you are. Mm-hmm So, and that's, that's how, this is how my life like changed in from like, um, Arabic, Yemeni, hold to the culture to a radical Christian. Mm-hmm Because of that experience, that's year, that's period. That's actually not only one year, two years. Mm-hmm So I was baptized by the end of 2018.

I remember when Pastor William baptized me, he said, John, uh, upon your confession of faith, I baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son and Jesus Christ. And he brought me into the water. I came out of the water and I felt God, Jesus Christ. He told me, I felt that conviction. He said, you're going to share me with the nations. Mm-hmm And I remember because I used to live with the, with the missionary. I went the same baptism day. I went back. We had supper, you know, dinner in his apartment.

And I told him, Pastor, um, I want to share my faith publicly. Are you sure your family back in Yemen? You have daughters. And I have that conviction in my heart because I want to tell everybody about the God of love, the God of salvation. It's shame on me. I start to quote verses from the Bible. You know, if you deny me before people from Matthew 10:32, if you deny me before people, I will deny you before my Father in heaven. If you acknowledge me before people, I will acknowledge you before my Father in heaven.

If you love your mother and your father more than me, you are not worthy of me. If you love your daughters and, uh, uh, sons more than me, you are not worthy of me. Pick up your cross and follow me. Mm-hmm So I was into the scripture. Mm-hmm Paul said, uh, I am not ashamed of the gospel for the gospel is the salvation to the whole nations. I said, it's shame on me if I don't share with my people. Mm-hmm So God gave me that, you know, that passion. Nobody can stop me.

No, even your daughter, my daughter was in Yemen. I know if the, if I share, it's going to be a huge consequences. Mm-hmm But even though I shared, Mm-hmm the same night, I upload my baptism, my testimony. Wow. So that, that would have been very, that, that's a dangerous thing to do. Yes. That's a really dangerous. I mean, that's the end. I mean, especially like not only you've, you've converted to Christianity, you're also uploaded, you say you uploaded your baptism. Yeah, my baptism and my testimony.

And your testimony. I mean, so it's not just, oh, he's just saying that. No, no, no. Like you got baptized, you have a testimony. Like this is not just hearsay. This is, you're showing this is the fruit. This is the evidence. Yeah. Yeah What happened when you posted that? Muslims, Yemenis, YouTubers, uh, influencers, they start to do videos against me. You put this out on like social media. Facebook and, uh, and, uh, YouTube. Wow. So yeah, very publicly.

And, and because most of the, the vast majority in my country, they use Facebook. Mm-hmm So it went viral and people, these, uh, influencers, they, they, they have millions of followers. They uploaded videos against me. They used my baptism video and my testimony. And, uh, people, they start to get curious because it's never happened in Yemen. Nobody baptized in Yemen or outside of Yemen as a Yemeni and share his testimony before. I was the first one. Because it was too dangerous, I guess. It is too dangerous.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It was crazy. So they make me more popular. They make it more viral. And my family saw that, my community, the leaders, the imams. So boom, my family started to call me because they get pressured from the community. This is your son. My family, they, they were in big trouble. This is, you know, because I told you, it's a family culture. It's a tribal culture. So what I did is it didn't only, you know, affect my family. It's going to affect everybody.

And my family started to call me, you know, it's too late. I have decided to follow Jesus, not turning back. They couldn't, you know, it was too late. Mm-hmm They started to use my mother. My mother called me. I can't believe this is my son. I told her, no, this is your son. And I came to know the God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And this God, he came to rescue me. And I started to preach to her. He died on the cross for me and he rose again. He, and he died for you as well.

You need to repent. I told, this is what I told my mother. Because I was bold, like straightforward. Boom. And she was offended. How dare you say, oh, you know, Mecca is not from Muhammad, from Allah. And she was offended about Islam. Because when I shared my testimony, I said, why I left Islam. And, and like why you went on that pilgrimage and you saw it wasn't real. Yes. Right. That's part of my testimony as well. That's probably, you know, that would have been very offensive. That's very, very, yeah.

It was, um, and yeah, she, she was really upset and she shut the phone on my face. Mm-hmm It was really hard. So the imam actually in my village divorced my wife under Islamic Sharia law. Mm-hmm My daughters remained with my mother. Mm-hmm My wife was taken by her family. Mm-hmm And they divorced, like the imam divorced her under Islamic Sharia law. And even they said me the, the official, uh, divorce from their side.

Mm-hmm So she, she has, she has not any, uh, she like, well, because when you get married, there is a contract. Mm-hmm Okay. Like a contract. And I, that's the divorce contract came from them. Mm-hmm That she divorced me. She is not under my authority anymore. Mm-hmm And it was really hard. Mm-hmm Because my daughters became the victim. Mm-hmm They become the, without father, without father and without mother. Mm-hmm And it was a really hard time for me. It was like, Lord, I said, Lord, what to do?

I lost everything. Mm-hmm And I, you know, I know in the Bible already said that, you know, your family will become against you. But when it's become real in your life, how to deal with, you are in the midst, in the midst of that. What to do, how to deal with it. So my mother, the missionary, they prayed for me, standing with me, supported me. And, um, and I said, you know, that verse came to my mind and still encouraged me every time I quote this verse from Matthew 16.

What the benefit of man gained the whole world and lose his own soul. I said, Lord Jesus Christ, I'm convinced 100% that you died on the cross for me and you rose again and you are alive. You are my God, you are my Savior. And I want to honor you. I want to obey you. I want to follow you all the time. Mm-hmm But I can't do it by myself. Mm-hmm This is what happened. I lost everything, basically. I started to receive death threats. My life at risk. Mm-hmm And they give me that peace, that shalom.

Mm-hmm And I felt, um, you know, peaceful and I started to dedicate my life more to read the Bible. Mm-hmm And, uh, to learn more about him, to dwell in him and to read the scripture, to enjoy the scripture in my life, to rest in him. Mm-hmm And, uh, you give me the courage as well to continue to do more videos. Mm-hmm So, and, um, persecution got intense in, in, in Greece. They wanted, even this, they started to persecute the missionaries as well.

Mm-hmm Because I, you know, they accused us that we take Muslims into Christianity because we baptized many people in, uh, in, in, in, uh, kiosks. Mm-hmm And I've been stopped many times. They were looking after me. They were looking for my address. Mm-hmm And it came to the point I need to flee from Greece. I used to love Greece. I have my document, Greek documents. It was a beautiful time. I met these people from different nations. We loved to evangelize to them. I was the translator to the missionary.

Mm-hmm I was like the bridge between the missionary and, uh, the people who came to the, to Christ. Mm-hmm And, uh, so it came to the point that I, I need to flee. Mm-hmm Because in order to, to do social media, you need like a safe country because Greek people, uh, Greek police, they, they see Arabs all the same. They don't care if you are Muslim, Christian, convert. They don't care. Mm-hmm And I don't blame them. They have their own problems, I think. Mm-hmm So, so I have to flee from Greece.

I, you know, I traveled to France by my Greek documents because I am allowed to go to the European Union. Mm-hmm I traveled to, uh, to Sweden, to Norway, back to Sweden. And okay, where to go, Lord? Mm-hmm I couldn't speak the languages, so I only speak English. So God gave me the conviction to go to the UK. Mm-hmm So I booked my ticket and I flew to the UK. Mm-hmm Ended up in London. Mm-hmm So I, when I arrived to London, I, you know, I asked for political asylum because my life was at risk.

Mm-hmm They sent me to a hotel, hostel. And I was in London. I, they put me in the second floor. They gave me a room. I opened the window. I saw a mosque in front of my, uh, in the, in the hostel. I said, Lord, why you sent me here to the UK? Why you sent me to London? Oh my. I was so frustrated. I ran from Greece because Greece is near Turkey. And Turkey is a Muslim country. All Arabs, they go to Greece and from Greece to Europe. Muslims. Why you sent me here, Lord? The following day, the same.

I opened the window. I saw a woman and her husband with a beard. And the woman with the, like, burqa, you know, covered everything, everything. The black one. I said, Lord, this is Middle East. I was so like, I said, Lord, why you sent me to the UK? Why you give me the conviction to come to the UK? So anyway, um, the following days, like in three days, I've been sent to, uh, other, um, other city, which I will not mention it because of, uh, security reasons. And, um, so now I start a new life in the UK.

Um, so I, you know, I get my political asylum in the UK and I start my new life working. I start to work actually with a church, uh, for three years. I worked in a steel company. Um, I worked different jobs and, uh, I start a new life, you know, but I have that heart for evangelism because God called me, gave me two gifts. One of them to evangelize to non-believers. Second, to equip the church because what I saw in the West, the church is so, uh, sleepy. I always say sleepy. Mm-hmm Weak. They're ashamed of Christ.

And, uh, you know, come on, people, you have Jesus Christ, the one who died for our sins. He suffered for us. Come on, proclaim him. So many people because he commanded us, go to the whole nations and make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And I will be with you to the end of the time. And the churches, they don't do that because the nations, they are like in the UK, in everywhere. You can see them in any, in any kind of, I think even in the US.

Mm-hmm Come on, share with the nations. The nations, the nations is in your country. Mm-hmm So, so this is why I have heart for mission. I am, uh, my, my mind is like about mission. I want to do mission, mission, mission. I want to see the churches to do mission, to evangelize, to tell everybody, everyone about the God, uh, Jesus Christ, Mm-hmm the King of Heaven. Mm-hmm So now I, I continue to share my faith public on social media. I have a, I established last year my ministry officially.

It's called Faith and Love Media. And they share, um, like videos in Arabic, basically like one minute video. But I always, I invite people to come to the Lord. Jesus died for you. I proclaim the cross of Jesus Christ, the blood of Jesus Christ, the name of Jesus Christ, the message of the cross, basically all the time. Um, and my dream to have podcasts like you, uh, to do more teaching and to invite people to talk about, uh, different topics.

And because I, I continue to share my faith public on social media, um, you know, Yemen is almost 40 million. Wow. And, uh, because I, I in Facebook, I do ads, campaigns. And, uh, 60% of my people in Yemen heard about Jesus Christ. That's incredible. I say, I say my videos go where I can because if I go back to Yemen, they're going to skin me. They're going to kill me live. Bro, they're going to skin me. They're going to take my skin off my body. That's what they're going to do.

They're going to send a message to everybody in Yemen. If you dare to do what John did, this is the result. Mm-hmm Have you heard from religious leaders down there issuing like what kind of threats have they sent towards you? Like, like what are they claiming they'll do to you? I advise everybody to go on my social media, John Ganim. John Ganim. And see the comments, how every day I receive their threats, persecution.

Mm-hmm Uh, some, uh, secret Christians, because every day we hear a New Testament is inside of Yemen. There is an underground. I was just telling you one before we started, or I messaged you before we were recording this. It's like some in a different Middle Eastern country watching your videos are coming to Christ, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's real. It's happening. Yeah, it's happening. So there is underground, uh, believers in Christ. So some of them, they've been arrested.

And, uh, you know what happened when they investigate, when they, um, you know, investigate them, they ask them, do you know this John Ganim? They ask them about me. This is the government of Yemen. Mm-hmm They ask him, do you know him? No, we don't. They deny some of them. But they don't follow him. Don't listen to him. He's a spy with the CIA. He's a spy with the Mossad. He's a spy with the European Union. This is what they called me. Wow. I'm not, I'm a spy to with Jesus Christ. I proclaim the kingdom of heaven.

You're okay. That's kind of, that's not what I expected. Wow. I just didn't think of you as a spy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they want to. Yeah. What they're, are they saying, oh, you're trying to mess up our country and, and ruin us because you're teaching us to not be Muslims? Is that what they're saying or? Yeah, you are. Because this is how we grow up here, you know, brother. Okay. You know, when we grow up, they will teach us the West against us. The West, the West, they hate us. They hate Islam.

So when you grow up as the, under this teaching, of course, you're going to hate the West. I remember when I was in Yemen, I used to, uh, quote this, uh, saying, it's death to America, death to Israel, Mm-hmm the death to Jews, Jewish people, victory to Islam. Mm-hmm I used to do, I used to say that. Isn't that what the Houthis say as well? Like that's their tagline. Houthis and Iran, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. The West, they call it the slogan. Mm-hmm So death to America. I used to say that, death to the West.

Now I'm in the West. This, yeah, we used to call them, to call them infidels. And I used to have this doctrine, this teaching. Mm-hmm But when I started to read the Bible, when I came to the West, when I renounced Islam, when I gave up Islam, I, you know, I came to the Lord Jesus Christ and started to read the Old Testament, the New Testament, and God gave me a new heart. Mm-hmm And now I have a mission, even to the West, Mm-hmm to tell them, come back to the, to the first love, Jesus Christ.

Mm-hmm So now I continue to share on social media. Mm-hmm I, uh, I go to speak in different, uh, events, uh, around Europe, around the UK, different churches. So the Lord is using me. Um, I've been even to the UK Parliament. I've been to Geneva, like Human Rights Council. Mm-hmm I never thought I came from a small village. Yeah. I was in Rafi'i camp. But because I say, I, I belong to the Lord Jesus Christ. And you know what I say always? Muslims, they say, they always send me their threats.

We're going to like drink your blood. I told them, well, my blood is not tasty. And you know what I say also? They told me, John, we're going to kill you. We're going to kill you. I told them, well, if you kill me, I'm going to go to heaven 100%. If I stay alive, I'm going to continue to share about the kingdom of Jesus Christ, the Savior, the Messiah, the one who died for you and rose again. So they get more angry. So yeah, I love social media. It's, it's got to be a very dangerous platform.

But if we use it for, uh, for, for the Lord, as you do, brother, it's amazing. It's, uh, because I believe it's one of the tools for, for these, uh, generations to, to share Jesus Christ. So this is what, basically, this is what I do. You know, my video is trending in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. One video in India, one imam did video against me in India, hit 8.5 millions. And a church, listen, a church from India called me.

They said, John, because your video is trending in India, two Muslims came to our church and they gave their life to Jesus Christ because you encouraged them to leave Islam. They gave their life to Jesus Christ. I said, wow, Lord, I never thought I would share my faith with Indian people. But you are mighty. It's, yeah, uh, social media, it's, I decided my social media belongs to the Lord. Mm-hmm My mind belongs to the Lord. My heart belongs to the Lord.

Mm-hmm And that allows you to, like you said, go to places you can't go. Like you can never, you can never go back to Yemen, your home. Not only Yemen, even the Middle East. Yeah. Because they consider me a blasphemer. You know, these days when you go to the Middle East, sometimes you need a visa. Mm-hmm And when you apply for a visa, they lock online. And right there you are.

But you know that there's a, I can imagine there are some days that that is hard knowing that you, at least for now, you can never go back to your home country. Mm-hmm You know, how does that feel? Whoo! That's, uh, that's a good question. Mm-hmm I think God gave me grace because even when I think about my daughters, because I miss them. Yeah. My family, my, I have a big family, like, uh, over hundreds of people. Mm-hmm But God gave me grace. Mm-hmm This is why I told you I'm really focused about mission.

Mm-hmm I want to just live for the Lord 100%, not 90%, 99%, 100% to share Him. And even I want to die for Christ. Mm-hmm Because Paul said, if I die, I die for Christ. Mm-hmm If I live, I live for Christ. Whether if we die or we live, we belong to the Lord. For me, to live is Christ. To die is gain. Mm-hmm That's what I reminded myself every day. You know, every morning I wake up, I say, Lord, because I, you know, I was born in Yemen. You know, I remember that I am a Yemeni. You know, I can't deny that. I can't.

It's fact. Mm-hmm As you see, you wake up every morning, you are American. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I'm a Yemeni, but I belong to the Lord, actually. Lord, thank you so much. I love you. And I want to honor you. I want to follow you, Lord. Give me strong faith, radical faith. I want to obey you. Here I am, send me, Lord. Every day, every day I wake up, I smile to the Lord. Wow. Yeah. So I am, I'm sure there are going to be many Muslims who will listen to this interview, um, podcast, YouTube, online, who knows?

What would you like to say to them? I would say, Muslims, you know, I love you. I don't have any problems with you. You are a human being like me. I was once like you. And I would say, you are a victim of Islam. Mm-hmm And you are allowed to question Islam. You are allowed to read about Jesus Christ, not the Quranic Jesus Christ, the biblical Jesus Christ. I would advise you to read about Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ, He is the the one who came from heaven to rescue me. And He gave me assurance.

He written my book on the the book of life. And He, if you want your name to be written on the book of life, if you want to be guaranteed by the kingdom of heaven, come to read, come and read about Him. And repent because when you read about Jesus Christ, don't believe the when people say about Christianity is corrupted. When you come to read the Bible, you will understand what does it mean to follow Jesus Christ. And you will understand the values, how to be man, how to be woman.

Mm-hmm All the values it's here in the Bible. The more you read the Bible for yourself, you will understand. And you will not judge Christians according to the TV or according to the West. Mm-hmm No, because Christianity actually started in the Middle East, where I came from. Mm-hmm And, uh, I would advise you and encourage you to read the Bible. Don't be scared. I know fear is the greatest enemy. And because of fear, you are fear stopping you from coming to Christ or at least reading about Jesus Christ.

But He loves you. And He wants you. And He redeemed you. And He died on the cross for you. You know, remember that He died on the cross for you. And on the third day, He rose again. And He's alive. He's God. You know, if someone did that for me, of course, I'm going to follow Him. I'm going to, He did miracles. You can read about Him. He did miracles. People, there is a lot of evidence that this Bible is real. And you can read for yourself.

Mm-hmm So I would encourage everybody from Muslim background to to dare to question and to dare to read. So now I want to flip this around and say, what would you say to all the Christians, especially I'm thinking those in the West, you know, or us in America or so forth? What would you like to say to them from what you've learned?

My dear brothers and sisters, Christians from the West, we are we are Christians who turn back to the first love in Jesus Christ because Christianity started from in from from the Middle East. And now we've been influenced by Islam. We were born as a Muslim. Now we rejected Islam. And we paid the price. I lost everything for Christ. And Jesus Christ taught us not to be ashamed of Jesus Christ. When I came to the West, I saw everybody ashamed of Jesus Christ.

So come on, wake up, uh leave your comfort zone and start to share Jesus Christ, start to follow Him in a real way, 100%, not 99%, and start to follow Him, honor Him, and share Him. So that's how we're going to change the world upside down. But if you just live in your comfort zone and you do you do nothing, how are we going to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth? Mm - hmm We are kingdom people. We carry the authority of the kingdom of heaven.

Don't underestimate what what the one in you, because Jesus Christ said the one in you is greater than the one in the world. So please, people, they are paying, uh please, people, they are paying for um for believing in Jesus Christ from the Middle East, from Africa, from other countries, from the from these difficult countries who don't believe in Christianity. And here is the in the West, there is a lot of freedom and you have access to everything. Yet you are not willing to say, I am a follower of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is my Lord. Jesus is my God. And I'm going to honor Him and follow Him 100%. Well, as we tie all these pieces together, is there anything else you would like to share with our audience? Any last conclusions you want to make sure you leave with those listening? The Bible is the treasure, the treasure of heaven in our hands. As Jesus said, repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. We belong to the kingdom of heaven. We belong to the King of Glory, Jesus Christ. And let us focus on Him all the time.

Let's read His words. Let's rejoice. Let's receive His joy because the joy of the Lord is my strength. And this is for every one of you, for everybody who is watching on this podcast. You can receive the joy of the Lord every day. It's free. It's for you. And Jesus loves you so much. And He died on the cross for you. And He rose again. And you are victorious in His name. Only in His name. No other names. And His name is Jesus Christ, Yeshua the Messiah, Yahweh, Elohim, Adonai. Shalom, shalom.

John, thank you for sharing your story with us. And you're not just saying these things, but living these things of being not ashamed of Christ and being willing to give up a lot, everything for God and His kingdom. That's easy for us to say those things, but it's really hard to live them. And you're an example of that for us. And it's not a it's not a little thing that you've done that and you're willing to share that with us. And I really appreciate you taking the time to do that for the listeners today.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And I pray for all of you to do the same as well because, uh, everybody of, uh, we should do the same and leave a testimony, a living testimony, a sacrifice for the Lord, Jesus Christ, and to renew our mind every day in Him. Mm-hmm. And not be ashamed of Christ. Not to be ashamed of Jesus Christ every day, wherever you go. Mm-hmm. Wow. Well, thank you for sharing, John. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

If you enjoyed this episode with John, check out this one we did with Mr. Russell, where he describes the history of jihad, holy war, and the interaction of the Christian crusaders with the early Muslim fighters, as John was telling us about in this interview. And you can find that linked in the description down below. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast app and check out our other YouTube channel. It's a documentary series on the first hundred years of the Anabaptist movement.

And again, that's linked in the description down below. Thanks again for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode.