That's a tough situation. I would try and think of some good questions to ask because that might further the conversation without making it too confrontational. For example, "If what you're saying is true then how come Jesus never taught that?" I don't know how much of a reader you are but two short books that are easy to read that could really help are, "Forgotten Gospel" by Matthew Bryan and "The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism" by Ken Wilson.
One thing you can point out is that Luther's understanding of faith was incomplete. In both Hebrew and Greek the words used for "faith" mean "faith" and "faithfulness". But because of Luther's Augustinian theology he excluded this latter aspect of faith because Augustine departed from orthodox teaching and embraced Monergism. This belief says that God does everything - man contributes nothing and does not have free will or at least cannot exercise it.
If you want to go deeper, I highly recommend "Salvation By Allegiance Alone" by Matthew Bates but it is a much longer and more challenging read than the previous books mentioned.
Is that helpful?
Thank you Chip, I will try and get these books to read.
Also check verses like John 8:52 or Hebrews 5:9.
These parables of Jesus are related to our faithfulness and final salvation -
The Wheat and the Tares
Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
The Unforgiving Servant
Matthew 18:21-35
The Wedding Feast
Matthew 22:1-14
The Faithful Servant and the Evil Servant
Matthew 24:45-51
Luke 12:35-48
The Wise and Foolish Virgins
Matthew 25:1-13
The Talents
Matthew 25:14-30
The Sower
Luke 8:4-15
The True Vine
John 15:1-8
Finally remember that Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)
But what is the Father's will?
1) In Matthew 17:5 God says: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” So the Father's will is that we "hear" His Son, Jesus Christ and by implication obey Him.
2) In 1 Thessalonians 4:3 Paul says: "For this is the will of God, your sanctification..."
This verse doesn't need any commentary.
God wants us to hear His Son, Jesus Christ and obey Him that we might be sanctified and brought to final salvation. Hebrews 10:14 comes to mind - "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."
A course that really helped me to establish my beliefs on this topic was A Grace Worth Saving: Evaluating the Doctrines of Grace (I don't know if it is still under that title, but as soon as I saw your opening question I thought of this course). Anyway, hope that helps!
Perhaps it could help, Judson if Independent Baptists are reformed. But, to my knowledge they are Fundamentalists and perhaps Dispensationalists. If that’s the case then it’s quite a different thing.
Thanks Judson and Chip. They are dispensationalists and Fundamentalists. Thanks for all the help.
Rosanne - do they believe Jesus’ teaching was for the Jews under the Old Covenant?
If you're looking for concise, I can't understate how much mileage I've gotten out of the following statement regarding this and many other issues: "That interpretation of the Bible didn't even exist within Christendom for literally hundreds of years after the Apostles composed the New Testament." A notable observation particularly pertinent to the Calvinist tradition: "The closest interpretation to that was held by the Gnostics who weren't even considered Christians."
If neither of those facts give someone pause, then they likely have deeper issues than just the subject of salvation.
When people tell me that the inclusion of works of our own free will in our salvation creates a "works based salvation," my rejoinder is typically along the lines of, "That's like saying that if you add a drop of milk to a glass of water that you've created a dairy based beverage."
1 Corinthians 3:9 We are God's fellow workers...
That one alone has a lot packed in it that could be broken down into questions like our brother mentioned above. If the Apostles beleived we were saved by faith alone Paul would not have made statements like this. Maybe this train of though could help. I often say when confronted with this question of once saved always saved: I went to school to be a nurse. I learned everything nurses need to learn to pass the boards. So, I passed the boards and got my license to practice nursing.
However, if I never actually practice nursing am I a nurse? Not according to the state I live in. If I don't prove I have been practicing nursing (doing the "work" of a nurse) I lose my nursing license. I am no longer considered a qualified nurse. Do I still have the knowlege of nursing, yes. But, even the demons believe...
sounds like your typical OSAS -rosanne race
