I understand that Bercot say the early Christians were pacifists but what about communism and all its evil to destroy and kill Christians. Is it not better to at least defend your right to worship God with arms if we can?
I understand that Bercot say the early Christians were pacifists but what about communism and all its evil to destroy and kill Christians. Is it not better to at least defend your right to worship God with arms if we can?
David Bercot is a conduit to pass on what those who knew and were trained by the apostles taught. This is not theology of David Bercot, but he echoes the Historic Faith AND more importantly, what Jesus taught.
If we pay attention to what Jesus said, for he in various ways tells us to do this so that the serpent at the tree does not deceive us saying " Did Jesus REALLY say 'Love your enemies or to not resist the evil doers taking up the sword against you, and that all that live by the sword will die by the sword?" The answer to EVE was YES God did say 'Do not eat from this tree' and the answer until his return is "Yes he did say these things and meant them".
What Jesus is telling us is much what Paul teaches if understood rightly in his letters, and I will state in his words in 2 Timothy 2:11 "If we DIE with him, then we will live with him"
or Romans 8:17 "We will share in Christ's glory IF... IF we share in his suffering" ... and Philippians 1:29 "It has been GRACED to you to not only have faith but to suffer WITH Christ"....
because Paul teaches the Law of Sin and Death condemns all sinners and through sharing in the "dying to this life, we can inherit the next life" (Second Clement earliest sermon we have, dated late first century AD to early 2nd)
We must DIE to this life. This is how we can do what Paul and John tells us to not participate ANY LONGER in worldliness ( Titus 2:11-12 , 1 John 2:15-17 ).
IF God calls for us to die as Martyrs, then we must die as martyrs.
Now what you described is a CALL from God to die as martyrs whether you want to recognize it or not, because Jesus says Love them. Taking up the sword against them is not loving them, nor is it obeying Jesus to "follow me".
May the Lord bless you Erik.
I understand that is what they beleived but as for today if the communist would take over America just as they did in Russia and many other countries would it not be God to stand up and fight evil with the sword when your own goverment are not. If there are no justice enforcer like police/military in the land we are being slaugtherd and millions are being murderd for what?
If the communist come to your door and you know he will rape your wife and daugthers, kill your sons And throw you in prison for the rest of your life and you had the chance to stop his with a gun would you not? Or would you just let him in?
If the communists come to your church and you know they will burn it down and hang your pastor and you know there will not be a visible chuch and a open sermon preached for the next 70 years and you and 10 other men have guns to stop them would you not?
What if there are no goverment to be subject to who are Gods avengers but goverment are the doers of evil, can a christian act in it place? Like the cristianos in Mexico.
For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
Have you listened to Bercot's lecture on What the Early Christians believed About War? If not, then that is the best place to start. If so, then I recommend that you listen to the following public debate featuring our own David Bercot and Dean Taylor:
YouTube video — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4xQaDDKY7k
I did and more what bercot had to say. But it seems so foolish to just let evil people have their way with no resistance at all.
Yes Erik, the personal cross solution to erradicating sin introduced by Jesus is foolish to many.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.
1 Peter 2
19 For it is GRACE if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is GRACE before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
Philippians 1:29 It has been graced to you all to suffer as well as believe.
# χαρις grace
# χαριζομαι graced
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
1 Peter 4
1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has stopped from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.” (1 Corinthians 3:19)
Fierce persecution wasn’t a hypothetical question for the early Christians. Women, children—whole families were persecuted, and there is no record of any having done violence in defense. Are communist persecutions in recent history any worse than those of Nero, Diocletian, or other tyrannical emperors between them?
We have before us the examples of Christ Himself, His Apostles, and the succeeding generations of Christians for as long as there was persecution as the archetypes of our prescribed conduct today.
I know you are right but it is hard to accept it and just become a sheep to be slaugtherd...
Thanks but it is hard to accept please pray for me.
I know it is. I used to have a career in private security doing armed vehicle patrol and emergency response. My worldview was a bit different then. No one I know has made the transition to the early Christian beliefs and practices over night. I think the next course I'll take here is Dean Taylor's Change of Allegiance.
Me too. Bless you Erik.
I got another question. What about disobedient children is it permissible to pinch them och spank them or otherwise inflict pain to make them obedient?
Remove this post i started a new subject with this question
Excellent choice, dear brother Errol! Dear brother Dean Taylor's course has a lot to say regarding the topic being discussed here. And he explains the long journey he and his wife took from being proud, patriotic, members of the U.S. Army to radical, non-resistant, kingdom Christianity.
Hello, dear brother Erik. I see lots of excellent discussion and fellowship regarding your original question. The only thing I would add to what has already been shared is that while Jesus and His apostles clearly taught the way of non-resistance to human beings that are evil, we are most definitely not pacifists. In fact, we use tremendously effective, spiritual, "weapons" to fight back against evil - self-sacrificial love, a willingness to lay down our lives for others, and persistent prayer.
This theme shows up multiple times in the New Testament. Two of the best-known passages regarding this point are the following:
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds," (2 Corinthians 10:3-4)
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:12)
As dear brother David Bercot writes in his book, "The Kingdom that Turned the World Upside Down", Jesus' teaching regarding non-resistance are "the big stumbling block" that have caused so many conventional churches to reject the kingdom teachings of Jesus.
Non-resistance is hard for our flesh, and we all have to wrestle with Jesus' very clear teachings on this subject. The kingdom way truly is a difficult way, but it is the way that leads to eternal life (Matthew 7:14).
May the Lord richly bless you, dear brother, as you continue to seek His kingdom and His righteousness.
Brother Charles, thank you so much for that. I am reminded and edified by your words. I fell short of explaining that aspect.
Brother Erik, Paul tells us who are faithful that God will not give us more than we can bear.
Lord bless you both.
Brett