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Jumpstarter 8 of 10

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The Claims of Rome and Eastern Orthodoxy  /  Apostolic Succession – Part 2  /  Discussion Questions
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Question 8
Bercot’s “U.S. presidents” analogy distinguishes a list of ordainers from a list of office-successors, and he claims early lists (including Irenaeus’s) were the latter; how does that distinction change the credibility of modern apostolic succession claims, and why do you think so many educated Christians miss or minimize this difference?
Another way to ask: If early bishop lists were mainly lists of who held the office (not who ordained whom), how does that affect modern claims about apostolic succession? Why do you think many educated Christians overlook or downplay that difference?

Direct Answer The distinction undermines modern claims that bishops can trace an unbroken chain of ordinations back to the apostles, because early sources typically list who followed whom in office, not who ordained whom. Bercot suggests many miss it because modern succession lists *look* like ordainer lists until they quietly switch formats, and because people read later doctrine back into early texts.

Support from Transcript:

  • Bercot compares modern lists: “a list of who ordained whom” (with dates and consecrations).
  • But at the beginning, his own list turns into “a list of the various bishops… who followed whom in office.”
  • He says Irenaeus’s Rome list is the same: not ordainers, but “who followed whom in office,” with gospel truth passed by “discipleship… not through ordination.”
  • Presidents analogy: proving the oath was administered fails once the list becomes mere succession in office.
  • He claims this switch happens in “all lists… even the list for the Pope himself,” because “no one kept lists of ordainers prior to the 4th century.”
  • He admits he overlooked it for years, and says “a whole host of very educated theologians… haven’t caught the distinction,” partly due to starting with a doctrine instead of a “blank slate.”
Discussion Follow-ups What would count as adequate historical evidence for ordination chains? How can Christians train themselves not to confuse “office succession” with “sacramental transmission”?

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