When Theology Became More Important Than Lifestyle - The Historic Faith Encounter : David Bercot

Of Nicaea, theology became more important than lifestyle, and that hasn't changed. I mean, people, you will be labeled a heretic not because of the way you live, but because of a doctrine that you hold to or don't hold to.

Theology changed from simple, very simple, to complicated, complex. O Lord, restore your ancient ways and make your people new. When I got to working on my messages, my middle one was supposed to be "What Happened at Nicaea," but I realized I couldn't fit all that in 45 minutes, so I kept stretching it, and pretty soon it covered tonight's and my final one. So anyway, we will have one topic, but tonight we will be talking a lot about that the early church wasn't dogmatic. We'll be talking about it probably tomorrow morning as well. But you may be wondering, well, okay, why are we even talking about "What Happened at Nicaea?" Well, yeah, this isn't just a history lesson.

We're going to be talking about the historic faith this weekend. And I think, as all of you know, the historic faith is basically what they believed in the beginning, right after the apostles, what Christians everywhere believed. I think you've probably discovered, if you've tried to share this with people in your area, it's not the faith that's generally taught in churches today. I mean, some of it is. It's not like it's totally new or anything like that. But yeah, something has changed. Why don't we hear that being taught anymore? Well, that's what we're going to be talking about. It all turns on Nicaea, so that's why we're going to be talking so much about it. I'm going to try to not keep try to not get too detailed, but I'm going to have to forewarn you, we are going to have to get into some detailed history because that's just how it happened.

And I mean, there is a reason why the historic faith isn't what is normally taught in churches today. And it all happened. It started, at least, at Nicaea, and then it just kept going from there. I would say, as a church historian, Nicaea was the biggest turning point in the history of Christianity. I mean, once it got started on the day of Pentecost, the biggest turning point was at Nicaea.

And it's the greatest apostasy happened there at Nicaea. But I also recognize that's not what most history books are going to tell you. If you read the ordinary church history book, it's not going to say, "Oh, Nicaea is where everything got corrupted." In fact, if it's coming from the Catholics or the Orthodox, it's going to say, "Oh, that's when things got good."

And other history books will normally point to that as a positive time. As Kingdom Christians, we would, I think, all see it. Or by the end of this weekend, let's put it that way, I think you'll see it as, no, it wasn't something positive. It's when things started really going wrong. Now, the reason why your church history books aren't going to say, "Well, yeah, Nicaea is when everything went wrong," is because just about everyone who writes church history books, just about every kind of pastor, just about every kind of church—there are exceptions, for sure—they've embraced the things that happened at Nicaea. So, of course, they're not going to say, "Well, this is when everything went bad," because they're embracing this.

To condemn Nicaea would be to condemn themselves. Now, just so we're all on the same page, when I talk about the great apostasy began at Nicaea, don't interpret that to mean, "Oh, Christianity disappeared," and, "Oh, it was gone, and then it got restored by the Anabaptist or by the Restoration Movement or name whatever movement." I'm not saying that at all.

Christ has always had a church here on the earth. And by a church, I don't mean an institution. I mean people. He's always had his people here on earth. That's never changed. So yes, things took a wrong turn at Nicaea, but yeah, Christians didn't disappear. Most of them, yeah, I don't know where they stand with God. I'll say that after Nicaea. But I can almost guarantee you there are plenty from that time period who we will be seeing in heaven together. Okay? All right. So why do I say it's the biggest turning point? And again, it's why we're having this conference. I mean, it's strange to have a conference on the historic faith. That should be what 75%, 80% of Christians already hold to, and they don't.

The fact that we have to have a special conference just to talk about the historic faith is because, yeah, there was a turning point. And why I say it started at Nicaea—and these will be things we're going to cover, some of it tonight, some of it tomorrow morning, and then some of it on Sunday—okay? First of all, on theology. Because of Nicaea, theology became more important than lifestyle, and that hasn't changed. I mean, people, you will be labeled a heretic not because of the way you live, but because of a doctrine that you hold to or don't hold to.

Theology changed from simple, very simple, to complicated, complex. It changed from non-dogmatic to dogmatic and judgmental. And finally, at Nicaea, the church began claiming that God was giving it clearer revelation, which is, yeah, total apostasy—that, "Oh, now we understand things better than they did back in the days of the apostles." All right. So we'll be talking about all five of those things, like I say, tonight, tomorrow morning, and Sunday. All right. That's on theology. And we will be discussing mainly theology, not because it's the most important thing, but because the lifestyle, I think most of you are already aware of it, and some of these things will be covered by other speakers, too. But as to Christian living, again, because of Nicaea, the Sermon on the Mount was no longer viewed as the central teaching of Christianity.

So until that point, if you wanted to explain to the Romans what is Christianity all about, more than likely, you would go to your Bible—or you probably didn't have a Bible. You were so well-versed in it, you would be able to quote.

You would go to the Sermon on the Mount. All right. Christianity is about the teachings of Jesus Christ. He is our founder. He is our Lord. And here's what he taught. All right. That disappeared. It was all about theology after Nicaea.

They lost separation from the world in a lot of areas, but things like entertainment, dress, jewelry, cosmetics—some of these aren't the biggest things—but yeah, what Christianity was like before then, there was this major change. Then you have the big one, the union of church and state. Now it's no longer Christians just talking about among themselves. Now you have the state as the major player, and it can decide what is true or isn't, or at least it can put you to death if you don't agree with what it says is true or not true.

And then you have the acceptance of war, Christians taking oaths, torture, persecuting others, all these things. Before Nicaea, Christians said, "No, we don't persecute other people, even if they disagree with us." That's no longer true after Nicaea. Christians said, "Hey, we can't serve as jailers or all kinds of professions because we can't torture someone else." That is totally contrary to the spirit of our founder, Jesus Christ. After Nicaea, it's like, "Hey, you want to get things done? You torture people." So yeah, they accepted that. They accepted war, all of the things that you're going to have to accept if you're going to combine church and state. So basically, with Nicaea, primitive Christianity disappeared. Christianity didn't disappear, but primitive Christianity, what it was like in the days after the apostles, that's gone with Nicaea.

So it's why I say it's the biggest turning point in the history of Christianity. Now, let me explain this. When I say Nicaea, I'm referring to an era, not just to a single event. Now, the biggest event in that era was the Council of Nicaea in 325. Okay? Yeah. Just so you can kind of, in your mind, the apostle John died around the year 100. Okay? So that ended the era of the apostles. And then you have the era of the primitive church from there, from about the year 100 to 325, which is the Council of Nicaea. So it's about 225 years after the apostle John died. Okay? So just so you can kind of get it in your mind where we're at.

All right? So when I say Nicaea, it's a little—it's kind of a shortened way to refer to an era. It's like the Reformation. People have heard of Martin Luther nailing the 95 Theses on the door of the church in Wittenberg. I think that was 1517, but that wasn't the whole Reformation. I mean, that was just one bookend of it. It went on for quite a while. And it's the same with Nicaea. I'm using it to refer to an era. So it would have began with the Edict of Milan. And I'm sorry, I'm going to have to hit you with a lot of history because, hey, big things happen. I don't know what else to do, but it's important you understand these things, why we're in this situation we're in.

When people don't know their history—we were just talking, John D. Martin and I on Sunday—if you don't know where you've been, how can you know where you're going or where you should be right now? History is important to know. All right. How many of you have heard of the Edict of Milan? How many of you know? Wow.

Wonderful. Okay. A good show of hands. And don't feel bad if you don't. Okay? So it was the edict where Constantine legalized Christianity for the first time. I mean, it started off legal, but it was outlawed right about the time of John's death in the 90—around that era, 90 AD. Okay?

From that point until 313, it was illegal just to be a Christian. You could be put to death just because you are a Christian. That's all. They don't need any other evidence. Just you are a Christian. Now, thankfully, normally, the Roman government left you alone. But anytime, I mean, you never knew when everything could be just fine, and tomorrow there's a persecution, and yeah, you're going to be burned at the stake, tortured, thrown to the lions, whatever. All right. So when he legalized it, that was a big turning point. And the Christians, understandably, all saw it as a very wonderful thing. Wow.

Man, we can freely go out now and preach. We can freely meet. We don't have to be worrying about being put to death. Yeah, wonderful. But it made the church relax. Persecution does keep people on their toes. And he didn't just tolerate Christianity. He didn't just say, "Okay, we're not going to persecute you anymore." He put Christianity on the same level as all of the other religions in the empire. So it now was officially recognized by the Roman government as a legitimate religion.

Okay? Within a few years of that, the Romans were a very religious people. And they believed that the reason they had conquered so much of the world, the whole Mediterranean world, they thought it's because every time we conquer a people, we worship the gods of those people. We build temples to their gods. So their gods are going to think, "Hey, I'm going to be ahead if the Romans take over this country that I'm the god of because they're going to build bigger temples to me." Okay? This is how they reason. Okay? So the god of that country isn't going to fight to help.

Let's say it's the Syrians or whatever because he's going to know when we Romans take over, we're going to build bigger temples to that god than those people did. Okay? So for that reason, they paid salaries to all the different priests. There wasn't just one religion in Rome. There were all kinds of religions. And the Roman government would pay salaries to the clergy, to the priests of all of those different religions because they thought, "Hey, this is going to make all the gods. All these different gods are going to favor the Romans." And they really believed this is why we have conquered the known world.

So once Constantine himself was convinced of Christianity, well, hey, he wanted the leaders in the churches to be supported by the state so they wouldn't have to spend time in a secular job or something like that, that, hey, the state will take care of them so they can spend their time in prayer and teaching. I mean, on his part, perfectly right attitude. On the part of the church, they should have said, "Whoa, whoa, hey, thank you. We appreciate the offer, but no, we can't get tied in with the state." They didn't say that. They said, "Oh, hey, well, thanks. Yeah. Okay.

There's no set end to the era. I'm going to—and we'll talk about this. It might be Sunday when we get to it—the Edict of Thessalonica. If you've heard of it, I'll be surprised because I hadn't heard of it until a week ago. Okay? So if you've never heard of it, that's fine. It is where our history—the church history books say it's when the Roman Emperor Theodosius made Christianity the official state religion. And that's what I'd always read. And then if you all have listened to me very much, you know my big motto is always go to the primary source, see what it says. I thought, "I've never read this. I've just always assumed the history books were right."

So I finally get a copy of the Edict of Thessalonica. It doesn't make Christianity the state religion. It already assumes it's the state religion. What it does is make a particular kind of Christianity, the teachings after Nicaea, that is the state religion. Everyone else is a heretic. So you can only call yourself a Christian if you hold to these particular doctrines. Everyone else, they're a heretic. They're not a Christian. So anyway, it reflects the mindset that came in with Nicaea and really corrupted the church. But we're not just talking about past history. In fact, we're not mainly talking about it. If it was past history, okay. So what? It affects everything through this very day.

What happened at Nicaea? In fact, last year, it was ironic. Last year was the 500th anniversary of the Schleitheim Confession that sort of launched the Anabaptist movement. It was the notable event. It was the 1700th anniversary of the Council of Nicaea.

One stood for more theology, less Christian living, or less emphasis. The other one stood for a church built on how you live, not so much on theology. Interesting, they both had anniversaries the same year. So today, that same spirit from Nicaea is still here.

All right. So we're going to talk about the theological changes. And the first one is theology became more important than lifestyle. And I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this. I could talk all evening about it. It's extremely important. It's just I can say it in a few words. Okay? So originally, how you lived was far more important than what you believed. I mean, at a certain level, there were a set core of doctrines that, yeah, those were fixed. But they're so basic, I don't know of anyone who calls himself a Christian who questions them. Okay? So what Jesus wants to see is how are you living by my teachings, not what your complicated theology might be.

All right? So in the beginning, lifestyle was the important thing.

I think as Justin Martyr says, someone who's not living by the teachings of Jesus, we don't view him as a Christian any longer. He didn't say someone who has this doctrine incorrect or something, we don't view him as a Christian. No. If you're not living by Jesus' teachings, we no longer view you as a Christian.

Okay. I still remember I didn't grow up believing in the historic faith. It was about 40 years ago when I first started reading the early Christian writings. And I spent a year just immersing myself in it. It was so exciting to me once I got into it. So I still remember reading Justin Martyr's first apology. It's in the very first volume of the Anti-Nicene Fathers, which used to you could have as a set. Well, it's back in print now, but for years, it's been out of print. It's only been available digitally. Now, it caught my fancy when I read that. It was written about the year 160 AD, 60 years after the apostle John died.

And he's writing to the pagans. He's not writing to Christians and say, "Hey, this is what you should believe," or, "This is what you shouldn't believe." He's writing to the pagans, explaining to pagans, this is what Christianity is all about. And what was so interesting to me is that he goes to the Sermon on the Mount. Now, see, the church I belonged to that time, it was just a general evangelical church, a Bible church. Well, if you ask, "What is Christianity all about?" guess what book they would take you to? Romans. That's right. They'd take you to Romans. This is what Christianity is about.

Justin takes them to the Sermon on the Mount. This is what Christianity is all about. It's not about theology. Again, there is some essential theology. It's about how you live. Jesus gave us a way of life, and that's what distinguishes Christians from all these other religions. We have a way of life that is totally supernatural. It is something different than the way people on earth normally live.

And that made such a profound impression on me and got me really excited. I mean, up to that point, I mean, this was maybe three weeks into reading the early church. I mean, it sounded strange to me, the things they were saying. I mean, a lot of stuff that I thought I knew exactly what the Bible taught, and wow, they were saying it different. I was scratching my head, and it's like, "I don't know if I want to read these guys," but I kept on. But I really got excited that night. I remember reading that, and I thought, "Wow, Christianity, that's. People who are totally separate, living by another way of life." And it just got better from there on every night.

This is one of my favorite quotes from A quick announcement. No more paywall. The historic faith is now free for everyone. Explore over 2,500 Bible translations in over 2,200 languages. There are also 39 courses and over 600 lessons. And David has answered 164 Q&A so far. Freely listen to 11 of David's most popular audiobooks. And also, Dean Taylor's audiobook. Listen to the early Christians through modernized Anti-Nicene writings. And study the Bible and early Christians with strong tools. Every lesson and audiobook includes discussion questions designed for personal study, families, and church groups. Click on any verse and discover what the early Christians believe. Build playlists, join discussions, chat with others, and go deeper with guided questions.

Donations keep it running, but access and sign-up are free. Visit thehistoricfaith.com. Christianity, that's people who are totally separate, living by another way of life. And it just got better from there on every night. This is one of my favorite quotes from the early Christians. Like I say, I could spend all of tonight just talking about their emphasis on how we live versus what we believe. But he's talking to a pagan, and the Christian this is in sort of a literary drama. And he says, "We don't speak great things because the pagan is making fun of the New Testament and the writings of the Christians and saying, 'Well, your writings aren't like Plato and all this in this polished Greek.

And your writings, they're just terrible. They're embarrassing. I mean, can't you guys write in good Greek and all that?'" And his response was, "We don't speak great things. We live them." And that summed up primitive Christianity. It's how we live. It's not about fanciful works of theology or the writings of the New Testament. The apostles didn't write in perfect Greek.

They wrote in the Greek that people spoke just in the streets, everyday Greek. And like I say, the pagans just looked down on that because none of the founders of their religions or their philosophies I mean, they wrote in nice classical Greek.

God chose, "No, I'm going to write in the language of the people. We don't speak great things. We live them." Okay. The other change the next two I'm going to put together. The church moved from simple biblical theology, which it had before Nicaea, to complex man-made theology. They start going beyond the scriptures with Nicaea.

And they moved from a non-dogmatic, non-judgmental spirit that you see in the primitive church to a hyper-dogmatic, hyper-judgmental spirit. Now, this is so ironic. So you'd think when it was simple, you'd be really dogmatic. It's like, "Okay. Look, this is very simple, so you better get this right."

No. Instead, when it was simple, there was also a very forgiving, non-judgmental spirit. "Hey, let me help you understand this if you're not understanding it correctly." When it got complicated, then it's, "Boy, you better understand this correctly, or you are a heretic." And now they had the muscle of the state behind them. "You are going to face severe consequences." This isn't directly connected with the early church. It's one of my favorite quotes in church history. Richard Hooker was an Anglican minister, lived primarily in the late 1500s.

He's not talking about the early Christians here, but he was a student of the early church. He was very familiar with their writings, well-read in them. And he sums up if one of the early Christians had been this eloquent, maybe it's something they would have said. "God is no nitpicking sophist." That means somebody who's arguing about minute details and things, eager to trip us up whenever we say something amiss. "But a courteous tutor, ready to amend what in our weakness or our ignorance we say in error, and to make the most of what we say correctly."

And that's just the spirit of the early Christians. "Okay. Maybe you don't have everything correct. Let me help you to see it more correctly. But hey, it's good you're trying. You're trying to understand it correctly." And that is the spirit, I see, of Christ in the New Testament. How much does he ever talk about theology? I mean, it's mainly about life. We're going to talk about that more. But yeah, this, like I say, just perfectly fits the early Christians. They understood this. He got the point, but like I say, most of the Anglican church didn't.

Okay. So let's talk a little bit more about this simple theology of the primitive church. And it began with Jesus. Their theology was simple because the theology of Jesus is simple. Now, imagine you want to put together a systematic theology, some big, thick book based nothing on what Jesus said about theology.

How thick do you think that book would be? I don't think it'd be a little paperback. I mean, that's all. Jesus, he doesn't talk much about theology. That wasn't his main concern. He talks a lot about fruit. He wants to see fruit in our life. That's what he's concerned about. He said the Father would cut you off of the vine.

What? If your theology is wrong? No. If you're not bearing fruit. He talked a lot about how we are to live. The Sermon on the Mount. How much theology could you get out of the Sermon on the Mount? I don't know if you could get any.

You get a lot about how to live. He taught us what it means to love one another, and he set the example. He didn't teach us as much in words as he did with his own life and dying for us. Matthew 11:25, Jesus said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent." Some translations say the wise and intellectual, which I like better, "and have revealed them to babes." And the Kingdom of the Lord got exactly as Jesus said it would. The people whom the world looks down on as ignorant and foolish are the very ones throughout all of history who have best understood the Kingdom of God.

There have been some intellectuals. He didn't forbid intellectuals, but not many. Mainly just the ordinary, simple people who have been able to connect with Jesus and understand the Kingdom of God. And to found his church, Jesus chose 12 unlettered men. They had no theological training. Several of them were fishermen, just regular people. And this continued on. So the whole New Testament is built on simple theology, following in the footsteps of Jesus. When you get to the second century, nothing changes. Second century is from 100 AD to 200 AD. Okay.

They recognize two things I can say about them. They recognize the finality of the Gospel. It was complete. They weren't looking for some further revelation. No. Everything had been revealed to the apostles. They say this over and over. The apostles, all truth that we can know had been revealed to the apostles, what God wanted to reveal. And if God doesn't reveal it, we're not going to know anything about spiritual matters. I mean, it has to come from God. And he revealed everything he wanted us to know to the apostles. All right. So it's final. They're not looking for anything. They're looking back. What did the apostles leave us?

And they had received a simple faith, and they kept it that way. They didn't complicate it. They kept it simple. And because the faith received from the apostles was so simple, we ourselves, we should question any new dogmas, any new doctrines that go beyond the simple faith that was first handed down. If you can't trace it back to at least AD 200, in other words, by the year 200, you can see evidence that this is what they believed. If you have to get beyond that, I'm not sure we can claim it's the historic faith. All right. I mean, I'm not saying there's no value there. But in other words, what the apostles left, we have a testimony of 100 years of what was received.

Most of it's in the New Testament. I mean, there's very little beyond that. But how they understood the New Testament, which was, just to put it simply, they understood it very literally, just what it says on face value. That's what it is.

We've got a little time here. Okay. So somebody going to hold a sign up when I'm getting oh, okay. I was about to say, it looks like I've got a free thing here, but no. Okay. You tell me when I'm getting close. All right. So the early creeds, a creed is like a statement of faith. Okay. Most churches have a statement of faith, a statement of belief. You don't have to have one. It's fine if you don't.

Now, in the days of the early Christians, each church or geographical area had its own creed. They were all similar. They just weren't carbon copies of each other because there wasn't a uniform one that had been handed down, say, in the New Testament. Okay. They just took what had been handed down, what's the key things in the New Testament, and they all kind of summed it up. They're all very similar, but there was not a uniformity because there wasn't a church hierarchy who could impose it on people. Okay.

They're comparable to what we know as the apostles' creed. Okay. How many are you familiar with the apostles' creed? Okay. It looks like just about everybody. Very simple. They don't all have the apostles' creed there. It's just one of the versions. Okay. But they were all very similar. The earliest one we have in writing is from Ignatius, and it dates back to the year 105. I mentioned that the apostle John, do you remember when I said he died?

About the year 100. Okay. So this is just five years after John. And you have your first statement in Ignatius. It's kind of the core of what's in the apostles' creed. And he's just saying, "This is what we believe."

Now, Tertullian, the creed of his church, it's not something he wrote, but it's what his church in Carthage, their basic statement. And this is very interesting because he says, "The rule of faith is entirely one, alone, immovable, and unchangeable." Okay. So already by then, they're saying, "Hey, we don't add anything to this. This is fixed." And of course, that's what the Bible had already said. All right. And they got it. They understood. This doesn't change. And he said, "The rule is that of believing in the one almighty God, the creator of the universe, and in his Son, Jesus Christ, born from the Virgin Mary, crucified under Pontius Pilate." If you know the apostles' creed, this is very similar, but it's not the same thing. "Raised from the dead on the third day, received into the heavens, sitting now at the right hand of the Father, coming to judge the living and the dead through the resurrection of the flesh."

Okay. Yeah. This is it. Look how simple that is. Now, if you don't believe that, it's because you don't believe in the New Testament. I mean, that's so basic. Like I say, I don't see how you could possibly claim you believe the New Testament and you question this. All right. Now, I'm sure you haven't counted that. I did. It's 79 words. Okay.

Could sum it up? The apostles' creed, which is a little fuller, it hits a few more areas. It's only 110 words. All right. So that's how it was in the beginning when they said, "Okay. What are the essentials?" Yes, there is some doctrine you do have to believe. There is some theology involved. Well, yeah, it's that simple. They could sum it up in 79 words.

Okay. Now, you get to Nicaea. It starts to expand, and it just keeps expanding. Now, you come to our day. Now, this was actually several centuries ago. The Westminster Confession, this was when the Puritans took over England, and yeah, they put forth a confession of the statement of faith. 12,000, 79 words. Tertullian's creed is 79 words. They had to add 12,000 more words to cover what they thought was essential about the Christian faith. See, that's the spirit of Nicaea. You don't have that in the beginning. I mean, yeah, they may have been able to give you 12,000 words to talk about aspects of Christianity, but they wouldn't have said, "Oh, these are essentials that you have to believe."

But I don't think the Westminster Confession is much longer than most of the other creeds you see in various churches today. I mean, that's what's changed. We think all these things are so important that everyone has to believe just exactly the same. The early church said, "Hey, you need there's 79 words." Yeah, these things, there's really no ground there to have any difference of view. But on these other things, yeah, there's just a little bit of latitude. It's not because they were liberal. They weren't anything but liberal.

It's just that they realized Christianity is about how we live. Some theology is essential, but it's not a lot. And as I said, they weren't real dogmatic. And when I say that, I don't mean there weren't other fundamentals of the faith. So when you read the early Christian writings, and I know many of you have, maybe most of you have, you know they do talk a lot about the deity of Christ. I would say that subject is probably covered more than any other single topic, which is good because there should be no question in our mind what the church believed originally about who Jesus is, his relationship to the Father, his deity, and then also on the Trinity.

They don't talk as much about the Trinity as they do about Jesus and the Father. Okay. Salvation, probably the second most covered topic. No way there should be any question. What did the church believe originally about how we are saved? They talk about it a lot. No question there. But they didn't include it in the creed. They didn't think you have to understand the theology of salvation to be saved. You're saved by your belief in Jesus Christ and your obedient, love, faith relationship with him. It's not that you've got all of these doctrines down correct. But yeah, they definitely had a clear understanding of how you get saved, how you remain saved. Their view of baptism, pretty clear on that.

Communion, again, free will. No question they believed that humans have free will. We are not predestined. Okay. Not a long list. I was sitting there thinking, what are some things that they were all uniform on? Not a very long list of things. I mean, it's such a wonderful spirit that you are free to talk things about different things. You could present a different view. And a lot of people, when they read the early Christians today, I mean, they're shocked that, "Oh, you know Tertullian says such and such." Well, hey, or Origen particularly. Yeah. Origen. I mean, that guy, he. Brilliant mind. He loved to speculate. I mean, he loved to delve into all the questions.

But his starting point was, this is what the church believes. And that was basically the creed. Okay. Now, the things that the church hasn't given us any fixed dogma, well, for him, hey, good. I'm going to do some speculating here because the church hasn't defined anything. It was very clear what the church had defined, which wasn't a lot. And then, hey, where you were free to talk. Well, say, well, people read Origen today, they think, horrors. I mean, this man said such and such. Well, no one got real horrified then because. That's Origen. Okay. Yeah.

He's wrong, but that's fine. He's welcome to say that because we don't have any dogma on that topic. I don't want to give a wrong impression. On 90% of things, Origen teaches the same as everyone else. But he did have a mind that loved to try to find answers to unanswerable questions. The thing, though, about Origen is you won't find anyone less dogmatic than Origen. He loved to speculate. He loved theology. But he'll go into a big, long discussion, and then he'll say, you know, that's the best I can do on that topic. Maybe someone with better understanding can explain it better than I can.

He'd be the last person to persecute someone for disagreeing. In other words, hey, you can believe a lot of things. You can have a deep interest in theology, but you can learn that, hey, you're human. Very likely, you're wrong. So, hey, I can bless my brother when he disagrees with me. That was the spirit that was alive then. There's no reason we can't have the same spirit today.

Oh, I thought you were saying my time's up. Okay. But I think it is. They could talk about doctrines in a civil, non-judgmental spirit. Your brothers weren't trying to catch you in a slip. Like, oh, you said what? Heretic, heretic.

That spirit came in with Nicaea. Horribly. When it came in, it came in big. Yeah. Before then, wow, you could have civil discussions. It's like what the quote from Richard Hooker, hey, God isn't trying to trip you up or something. And if you say something wrong, okay, God can overlook that. Again, he cares about how you live, not whether you understand everything correctly. All right. And I'm not saying that we should be loose in our theology. I'm not saying that. It's just don't take ourselves so seriously. All right.

Five minutes. Okay. Another work of Justin Martyrs, and this one got me even more excited. So by now, I'm several weeks into reading the early Christians. I got excited seeing that he explained Christianity to the pagans by going to the Sermon on the Mount. Now, this one was different than anything I'd ever experienced because all I had known, practically my whole Christian life, was dogmatism. This is the way things are. And if you don't believe this, you're a heretic, or your church is a false church, or you're a false teacher, whatever. That's the spirit I got everywhere. As a Jehovah's Witness, I grew up a Jehovah's Witness. Whoa. I mean, so dogmatic. Now, I was in an evangelical church that they weren't near as bad as JWs on, but boy, they had a list, though.

You better believe that way. One of them was the Millennium, both JWs and the evangelicals. Boy, very fixed views on the Millennium. So I'm reading this work, Dialogue with Trifle the Jew. In it, again, it's probably a recreated dialogue, but Justin Martyr is discussing Christianity with a Jew. His apology is explaining Christianity to the pagan Romans. Now, he's explaining it to the Jews, and he does it in the form of a dialogue with a Jew. And it's probably a reconstruction of various dialogues or discussions that he did have. Okay.

And he's telling the Jew that he believed that there was going to be a Millennium here, that what is described in Isaiah, a new earth, and that Jerusalem would be restored. And the Jew is listening to this and is kind of excited. And he says, "You really believe this?" And this is Justin's reply. And I mean, I can still picture where I was sitting when I read this, the room I was in. I mean, I wanted to cry. It really touched me. Justin says, "I and many others are of this opinion. We believe that this will take place, that there's going to be a Millennium. Jerusalem's going to be restored in the Millennium." But then he says this, "On the other hand, there are many who belong to the pure and holy faith, and they are true Christians, but they think otherwise."

I thought, I've never heard anyone talk like that. I mean, it was always, "This is the way it is. This is the way it is," that he could say, "Hey, yeah, there's others. Hey, don't mistake me. I believe in the Millennium, but these other Christians, they are true Christians. They belong to the true faith, but they think differently." And that was fine. You could do that. I just like. This is wonderful. I remember telling Deborah about it. It's like, "Can you believe this?" So different than what we had experienced our whole life. And did I ever start getting very excited about the early Christians? It's like, wow, they want to live by the teachings of Jesus, and they can do it without being dogmatic, without condemning everyone around them who had different thoughts on various points of theology.

Lord, restore your ancient ways and make your people new.