Discussion Jumpstarter
Study leader reference - not a definitive answer
Question 5
Origen’s quote ties Romans 8 to “ascending to this state of perfection” where love leaves “no room…for sin”; how does that early Christian assumption about “perfection” (completeness in love) confront modern evangelical instincts that separate deep love for God from serious obedience?
Another way to ask: Origen says growing into “perfection” means love leaves no room for sin. How does that challenge the modern idea that you can love God deeply but not obey Him seriously?
Discussion Jumpstarter
Direct Answer
Origen’s reading challenges the idea that someone can claim deep love for God while staying casual about sin; in the transcript, “perfection” means completeness in love that makes sin increasingly out of place. Love and obedience belong together, not in separate compartments.
- Origen is quoted: if a soul loves God “with all its heart… mind… strength,” then “what room will there be for sin?”
- The speaker clarifies Origen doesn’t mean “sinlessness,” but “completeness.”
- Origen treats it as obvious that Paul means “our love for God,” and that the listed hardships can’t separate us “when we have ascended to that peak of perfection.”
- The speaker applies it: Christians should reach a place where they can say, “Nothing you do is going to make me stop loving Christ.”
- He later ties love to obedience through Jesus’ words: “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love,” implying disobedience breaks that abiding.
- He laments a one-sided gospel emphasis: “Everyone wants to hear about Christ’s love for us… but… ‘he who loves father or mother more than me’… is often not preached.”