Does God Arbitrarily Elect and Condemn Us? Romans 9 - Part 1 of 3 - David Bercot

Well, good morning. So, appreciate, uh, seeing all of you and the visitors. We're, um, for those of you who are here for the first time, this isn't our normal congregation about, uh, wow, nearly fully half or gone, uh, either at, uh, there's a Bible school going on at Shippensburg this morning, and we have a number of people sick.

But, uh, yeah, very glad to see, uh, the number that are here. This is going to be, wow, it's got to be one of the toughest passages, uh, of the New Testament. It's certainly been misunderstood enough. How many of you had a chance to, to, uh, read it over? Okay, I'm, I'm glad for that because, uh, just looking at it the first time, um, it, it would definitely, uh, take you where you would not expect. And I want to go through this slow. If you've got questions as we're going, if it's not clear what I'm saying, please raise your hand. Please ask questions as we're, as we're going, because I don't want to go to the next point and then, oh, you didn't really get what we said before.

And we have the luxury we can continue this next week, so, uh, we don't have to finish today.

I'm going to start off with a caution that John Chrysostom, he was a, uh, bishop, lived in the 300s, uh, an extremely good Bible teacher. And he, he made this comment: unless we receive Paul's words with proper caution and keep looking to the point of the apostle, countless inconsistencies are going to follow. And nothing would be more true with this fit more, uh, appropriately than this specific passage. He was talking about a number of passages in, in Romans, but on its face, uh, it would look like it's saying that God just predestines everybody. It doesn't matter what, what we do has no, no bearing on it. He just arbitrarily picks and chooses. And there's a lot of Christians who believe that.

And just on the face of these verses, we'll be reading them in a minute, um, I can understand why you would come to that conclusion. But you got to look at the totality of Scripture. And when you do that, you realize, no, there's no way that that can be the case. And it's not even what Paul is talking about, but you got to look at what Paul's point is.

To do that is going to the very beginning of the chapter. Now, when Paul wrote, he didn't write in chapters, but the divisions, uh, generally, I would say, uh, he did a good job of dividing kind of natural breaks. And so the first three verses of this chapter sort of sets the tone of what Paul is, is discussing in the verses that follow. He says, "I speak the truth in Christ. I am not lying. My conscience also bears witness to me in the Holy Spirit that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart." Okay, why is that?

He says, "For I could pray that I myself were anathematized from Christ for my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh." So Paul starts off, he's going to be saying things that perhaps wouldn't have gone down well with some Jewish Christians and certainly not with unbelieving Jews. And so he starts off this passage by saying how much he loves the Jews and he calls them my kinsmen according to the flesh. So he's, he's starting off saying, "Look, don't get me wrong. Don't, don't think that, that I'm somebody who hates Jews or, uh, dislikes them." He says, you know, "I would suffer anything, even being anathematized." We're not going to talk about what he means there, uh, for the sake of my brothers, meaning my fellow Jews.

He calls them kinsmen according to the flesh. And that's a very important phrase, according to the flesh, because we'll be talking about other kinds of Jews. All right, and then he says this about them, who are Israelites, to whom, and he, he lists all these privileges, to whom they pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the ministry of God, and the promises, to whom belong the fathers, and from whom Christ came according to the flesh. Jesus was a Jew who is God overall, blessed forever. Amen. So he's saying, wow, the Jews had all of these wonderful privileges given to them. But as he has been discussing throughout Romans, and as everybody reading his letter would have known, what happened?

Most Jews rejected Christ as their Messiah. By the time Paul wrote Romans, the Gentiles outnumbered the Jews in the church, even though the Jews were the ones who were given all of these privileges.

So that's why he says, "It is not as though the word of God has taken no effect." So somebody looking at the situation could say, well, God's word has failed. I mean, look what's happened. The Jews aren't believing in the Messiah. They're, they're not coming to salvation. So it looks like, yeah, everything that he said, all of the promises, this, this was all a waste.

So he says, no, it's not as though the word of God has taken no effect. Why? Now he explains, "For they are not all Israel who are of Israel." Okay, that sounds a little contradiction. He's saying there's another Israel. You might say spiritual Israel, true Israel, whatever term you might want to use. He says they are not all Israel, spiritual Israel, who are of Israel, Israel of the flesh. Okay, so just because you are a fleshly Jew doesn't make you part of the real Israel, the Israel of God, the spiritual Israel. And then he repeats it. Neither because they are the seed of Abraham, the fleshly Jews that are the seed of Abraham, are they all children.

So they're not necessarily the children of Abraham. Okay, just because they have that ethnic descent. He's saying that doesn't automatically make you a child of God. Okay, is everyone with me so far? Does this make sense? What, what he is saying? Can any of you think of something John the Baptist said that would tie into Paul's words there?

Exactly. So he's not saying anything new, but before the Messiah even appeared, John the Baptist, who was preparing the way, had said, you know, don't think, oh, I'm Abraham's, you know, children, because God can raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And that's exactly what happened, not from literal stones, but from the stone people with a stony heart, people who are worshiping stone idols, the Gentiles. He raised up children to Abraham. So then you end up with two nations, fleshly Israel and spiritual Israel.

Now, he talked about all of this back in chapter two, um, and he's picking it up again. And this is so typical of ancient writers. Um, those of you who have read any of the early Christians, the, the one that particularly stands out in my mind is Clement of Alexandria, um, who has wonderful things to say, but he can be quite a challenge to read because he'll start off on a topic and, and he, he starts explaining this and then, oh yeah, well, let me explain this. And then he'll, he'll start explaining that. Oh yeah, that makes me think of this. And he starts going that. And then he, oh yeah, and then we need to explain this.

And like literally 20 pages later, 20 long pages, it's like, okay, as I was saying, you know, back 20 pages ago, you know, it's like, whoa, I mean, that wouldn't work in our, our world. That's not how you're supposed to write. But that was their world. That was normal, you know? It's like, well, if I bring up something, I ought to finish that before I, I, you know, start this. So, um, back in chapter two, and a year ago when we were in chapter two, I said, you know, this is the key to the whole book of Romans. And it's the very chapter that most evangelical Christians just skip over, chapter two of Romans. It's like, if you miss chapter two, you aren't going to misunderstand the whole book of Romans.

Okay, so let's go back together. Romans two, verses 28 and 29. Paul said this, "For he is not a Jew who is won outwardly." Okay, I mean, you're still going to be a fleshly Jew. You can't change that. But he said, "You're not a real Jew. You're not one who is won outwardly. Neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.

But he is a Jew who is won inwardly. And circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God." So he's saying, yeah, forget about thinking you have a special privilege because you are a fleshly Jew. Yes, there are privileges. The Old Testament was all written by Jews, the covenant, the, you know, Paul listed all of those privileges they had, but that's not going to get you anywhere if you don't believe in Christ. You know, you can't cash that in and say, well, yeah, but I came from this long line of descent. He said, you're not even a real Jew. If you're not circumcised in your heart, in your spirit, if the inside of you hasn't changed, which is only going to happen through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then don't even call yourself a Jew.

And just before that, he had explained, therefore, if an uncircumcised man, in other words, a Gentile, keeps the righteous requirements of the law, not the whole law, but the righteous requirements that are there, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision. In other words, won't he be counted as, as a Jew? And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, he's talking about the righteous requirements of it, not all the minutia, will he not judge you, who even with your written code and circumcision are a transgressor of the law? So he said, a Gentile can be a real Jew because if you don't believe in Christ, the whole law pointed to Christ. You're a transgressor of the law.

If everything it pointed to, this promised Messiah, he comes and you reject him, you're a transgressor of the law. It doesn't mean, it doesn't matter whether on, on the Sabbath, you know, you don't leave your house or you, you know, uh, don't pick up a little, a little thing or, or this and that, that doesn't matter. You are a transgressor of the law if you do not embrace the Messiah that the law pointed to. Okay, so this is Paul's message that there are two types of Jews, two types of Israelites. There's the outward Jew, the ethnic Jew, and there's the inward Jew who is circumcised in the heart, and he is often a Gentile. In fact, uh, at that time, most of them, most of spiritual Israel were Gentiles.

So Paul says the inward Jew is the real Jew. Again, he can be an ethnic Jew. The Jews aren't excluded. I mean, they've got a head start and, and they're welcome. I mean, that they should be part of spiritual Israel or it can be a Gentile. There's no partiality with, with God. Now in Galatians, he calls these inward Jews the Israel of God. So there's a fleshly Israel and then there's the Israel of God, two nations, two Israels, two people groups.

Okay, everyone with me? Any if I like question or I'm with you with me? Okay, thumbs up. All right. All right. It gets a little bit more complicated. Now let's, but that's the background. If you don't read and grasp chapter two of Romans, when you get to chapter nine, you're going to go way off on, on a detour, which is what has happened.

Okay, that verse again, verse seven, for they are not all Israel who are of Israel. He'd said that back in chapter two, neither because they are the seed of Abraham, because they, their genetics can go back to Abraham. They're not all children, children of Abraham or children of God. Rather he says, in Isaac, your seed shall be called.

Now, why is he saying that? What, what do, I mean, all the Jews that he was talking to, they were descendants of Isaac. So, so what's the point of saying, rather in Isaac, your seed shall be called?

Okay, does anyone know how many children Abraham had?

If you'd asked me a year ago, I would have given you the wrong answer. So, um, anyone even want to venture? Well, let's look when there was also the, the, uh, sons of Keturah. Exactly. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so there's then that's, yeah, I got that far and I knew, okay, uh, the, the, the sons of Keturah, um, but I couldn't remember how many children were from that. Is anyone? Look, again, I wouldn't have known. So I'll tell you, eight children, all right? One from Hagar, that was Ishmael. He was the firstborn from Abraham. Second was Isaac from Sarah. And then there were six, I don't know their names, from Keturah, uh, after Sarah died. Okay. So he had eight children. Did that benefit them because they were Abraham's literal children? No, Paul says, because your seed through Isaac. So seven of the eight, it didn't do a thing for them that they were direct fleshly descendants of Abraham, because in Isaac, your seed shall be called.

That's the point he's trying to get across. Don't think because you're a fleshly descendant that gets you anywhere, because from the very beginning, seven eighths of Abraham's children were not in the covenant. They were outside of it.

And he says, but the children of promise. Okay, this isn't deep, but you just, you have to follow how Paul is thinking. He says, Isaac is a child of promise. And he explains what he means. For this is the word of promise. This was spoken to Abraham. At this time, I will come and Sarah will have a son. Okay. The other ones were not children of promise. There was no promise given when about Ishmael or about the six sons of Keturah. They were just ordinary children. Okay. Isaac was the only one who was a child of promise because Sarah was past the age of childbearing. It was a promise of God by which she was born.

Now, the reason he's mentioning this is he's trying to contrast the fleshly Jews and spiritual Israel, Israel, which are mainly Gentiles. And he's saying that spiritual Israelites are the children of promise. Okay. It doesn't do any good to be a fleshly descendant. You got to be a child of promise. Okay.

Anybody? You're still with me? Okay. All right. Now, this is the part that, um, and none of this is coming from me. I mean, that this, this chapter was a real mystery to me. And I was kind of surprised. The early Christians, it's like, they're all following Paul. And, you know, I mean, they all explain it the same way. It was clear to them. Um, it's just a difference between being a native speaker, living in a native culture. You get what somebody's saying. And when you're a foreigner, I mean, Daniel would know this best, you know, being in China, it's like, yeah, they've got a different way of looking at things. You know, you can learn the language and you can communicate, but probably an American is never going to think the way a Chinaman would think and vice versa.

Okay. So Paul is now pointing out what we would think is, huh, that Jacob is a type, not of the fleshly Jews, but of the Gentiles, that is spiritual Israel. So this is what he says. Okay. But first, he's, he's following this logic that because you are a fleshly seed of Abraham, it's gotten you nowhere. It will get you nowhere. Seven eighths of them, you know, were excluded from the covenant. Okay. But it didn't just stop there. So one of the, one of the eight, Isaac. But look what he says next. And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived through one by our father Isaac. Now, some Bibles say he had conceived through one man, but the word man is not there.

And that's not what he's trying to get across. He's trying to show how narrowly God can define things. So you've got two brothers, Jacob and Esau. They were through one conception. See, the eight children that Abraham had, they were through three different wives or concubines.

But he's saying, and yet only seven, seven eighths of them were excluded, only one of the eight. But he's saying it gets even more narrow. Now, now you have two brothers. They're not just of the same father. They also have the same mother, but the same conception. They were twins. They may have been the first twins ever born. We don't know. They're the first twins recorded in the Bible. Again, there may have been ones before them. So from the same conception, you have two brothers, and yet that still didn't automatically get both of them into God's favor. One was chosen, the other wasn't. So again, Paul is just trying to get this across. Don't think because you are a fleshly Jew that that is going to get you eternal life, that that's going to give you automatically a standing with God.

Because he said, here you have Jacob and Esau. They're through the promise line. They're both from one conception, and yet God picks that carefully. One of the twins is chosen, the other one is rejected.

For the children not yet being born, and this is the verse that people stumble on, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to his choice, that's my words, most Bibles say according to election, election means choice, and this is God's choice, might stand not of works, but of him who calls. Now, Paul hasn't suddenly changed what he's talking about. He's talking about these two nations of Israel and spiritual Israel. He hasn't suddenly switched midstream. Okay, now I want to talk about personal salvation and that everyone is predestined. That's he doesn't just change in the middle of the stream. He's making a point. He's leading his readers on to understand what he's saying.

Okay, so what we're going to be seeing is Paul is saying that Esau and Jacob prefigure fleshly Israel. Esau, the oldest, oldest prefigures fleshly Israel, and Jacob prefigures spiritual Israel. And spiritual Israel is primarily made up of Gentiles.

And to the Jews, this seemed very unfair. Now, wait a minute, for 1500 years, we have worshiped a true God. We've followed his laws. Of course, we know they did that very imperfectly. We didn't worship idols. You know, we listened to God's word. In contrast, the Gentiles during those 1500 years, they're out there worshiping idols. They're doing all kinds of abominable things. And are you saying that God is going to choose them over us? That's unjust. But Paul is saying that even before the Gentiles came to faith in Christ, before they'd done any works, before there was anything there worthwhile in them, God chose them that he would call them his people. Okay.

So two nations that that came, and he says it was not of works. In other words, it may seem unfair that God would open this up to the Gentiles who seemed so abominable to the Jews. And Paul is saying, but wait, go back and remember that Jacob and Esau, Jacob was chosen before he had done any works. So it's not unfair.

Okay. It was said to her, this is Rebecca, the elder shall serve the younger. Now, this is where you got to know the story in Genesis, and Paul is assuming his readers either know it or they're going to go back and look at it. Because if you don't know the story, you're going to totally misunderstand what he says here.

Let me just ask you, did Esau ever serve Jacob? The older shall serve the younger. Think back to Genesis. Is Esau, does he ever become the servant of Jacob? No, Adam Clark goes to great lengths to explain that this is not personal to work Jacob and Esau that refers to their progeny is the word that comes to me. Right.

Okay. But it's several paragraphs. He went there with that point. Right. And he's right on. So Jacob, Esau never served Jacob. The prophecy is not about Jacob and Esau. It's about the two nations that came out of them, Israel and the Edomites. That's where the blessing was fulfilled. Not in, I mean, you read Genesis, Esau prospered. I mean, he did fine. I mean, Jacob comes to him and by then, you know, God has prospered Jacob. He has a bunch of stuff. But Esau, you know, he says, look, I'm going to give you some flocks and stuff. And Jacob says, I don't need anything. I've got all I need. I mean, and it's Jacob who's, you know, on his knees, you know, before Esau and, you know, uh, calling him my Lord and everything else.

That was never fulfilled in Jacob and Esau. It was in the two nations that came out of them, the Edomites and the Israelites. In fact, that's in the prophecy. So see, most Christians, they're reading Romans and they don't go back and read Genesis that Paul is quoting from. If you don't go back and read it, you're going to misunderstand him. Because this was the prophecy that was given to Rebecca. The Lord said to her, two nations are in your womb. Two people shall be separated from your body. One people shall be stronger than the other. And the older, he's talking about people, the older people shall serve the younger. Okay. But Paul just quotes that last part, the older shall serve the younger.

And if you don't remember the prophecy or if you don't go back and look at it, yeah, you're going to think, oh, he's talking about Jacob and Esau. That wasn't the prophecy. It was the two nations that were there. The younger nation, which was Israel, uh, would end up being the stronger of the two. And that proved true. The, the, uh, uh, Edomites, I mean, they lasted, um, they were still around in Jesus' day. Uh, I don't know when they finally disappeared, but the Israelites had subjugated them. And, uh, Israel had been the stronger nation of the two. So that's how it was fulfilled. We're talking about two nations. All right. But if you think he's talking about two people, then you start applying this to personal salvation.

That's what he's talking about. He's talking about these two groups, fleshly Israel and spiritual Israel, that God had chosen spiritual Israel before, you know, hundreds of years before Christ, before any of us exercised any works or even faith, that God chose not us individually, but chose this spiritual Israel that all of mankind, Jew and Gentile, is invited to be part of.

Okay. The next verse. Good. Yes. Okay. You're saying that Jacob, Jacob represents spiritual, spiritual this. You're saying, you're saying Esau represents the Gentiles. You're saying spiritual of the Gentiles.

He's, no, no, say that again. You're saying, okay, so you're saying Jacob represents spiritual. Israel. Yes. Spiritual Israel. Okay. I'm just asking. Right. Right. And then Esau represents the Gentiles. No. Esau represents the fleshly Israelites. That's what I'm saying is counterintuitive. Okay. Counterintuitive. That makes, okay, because I was, I was trying to reconcile that. Okay. So in essence, they do like a role reversal. Yeah. A role reversal. And he does the same thing. I don't know if, if did any of you read the passage in Galatians? I know I sent you quite a bit of homework to, to do a few of you nodding, nodding your head. Okay. So that helps. He does the same role reversal there.

He says, um, you have Sarah and Hagar. Well, you know, our common sense would be, okay, Sarah represents the, the Jews and Hagar would be the Gentiles. You know, she was a Gentile. Sarah was, well, the founding mother of, of the Jews. But Paul reverses that. He says Hagar represents fleshly Israelites, the, the fleshly Jews, uh, who are in bondage, Jerusalem here on earth, the Jews. Hagar represents them. Sarah represents Christians, the Israel of God who are free, the Jerusalem above. And see, it goes totally against how we would expect it to be. But yeah, so people can prefigure things that are counterintuitive.

If you're struggling, I mean, that's fine. I struggle. Yeah. So Jacob represents the people of God, the real people of God. Yeah. Yeah. The new Israelites to the new Jews. Yeah. And Esau represents the fleshly. Too, because Esau was a fleshly descendant of Abraham. He was a true descendant of Abraham, but outwardly, inwardly, he was never a man of faith the way Jacob was. And so, yeah, that's why it represents the two, the two groups.

All right. Let me, um, as is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. Now, again, when you're just reading Romans, we'll stop here in a minute because I'm, you're probably thinking, man, can I keep all this in my head? And, um, you know, this will be posted at some point on YouTube. And yeah, I would really encourage you to, to maybe listen to it again because I literally, I don't, I can't tell you how many times I had to go over this to get it in my head because it's like, okay, yeah, it just something was that was seems to have been clear to all the early Christians.

Yeah, maybe because we've been indoctrinated or we just don't think in the same pattern thoughts. Okay. It is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. Now, the way Paul writes that, if you don't know what he's quoting from, it sounds like that was a prophecy given back to Rebecca, you know, Jacob I've loved and Esau has hated. He's not quoting from Genesis. That was never said back then. It's not even talking about the two brothers. It's talking about two nations. It's from Malachi, one of the last books, um, of the, uh, Old Testament. And this is what, where he's quoting, the, I'll read it, the burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.

Israel here is the nation. Was not Esau Jacob's brother, says the Lord, yet Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated. He's not, I mean, like this is a thousand years after the two brothers have been dead. I mean, this is a thousand years later that he's writing this. Okay. He's talking about the two nations that Jacob and Esau represent. Esau I have hated and laid waste his mountains and his heritage for the jackals of the wilderness.

The next verse, he says, even though Edom, see that's the nation that came from Esau, has said, we have been impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places. Thus says the Lord of hosts, they may build, but I will throw down. They shall be called the territory of wickedness and the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever. Okay. So Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated is talking about the two nations after a thousand years of history that the Edomites never accepted God. They remained, uh, at least by the time of Malachi, they later were forced to convert, uh, but this is after Malachi.

Um, they always went against God. They, they persecuted his people. The Israelites weren't, you know, they were unfaithful more than they were faithful, but at least there were always faithful Israelites during, during that whole time. So he says, I've hated Esau, not talking about a person talking about a nation, but one of the things that shows us he's not talking about people. There were fleshly Israelites who were very wicked, who were abominable, and you had descendants of Esau who were very godly. Job was a descendant of Esau. I mean, one of the most godly men of the Old Testament. So he's not talking about individuals. You can be descended from Esau and be godly, and you can be descended from Jacob and be ungodly.

It's not your ethnic descent, but he's saying these two nations, Paul is quoting it to show, okay, he made this prophecy and then he quotes a thousand years later. See, it turned out just like God promised that the younger, the older did serve the younger in the end. And not only that, it became, it was a wicked nation, which he knew from the beginning from his foreknowledge.

So Paul is applying all this to the two Israels. There's the fleshly nation of Israel and the spiritual Israel of God. Okay. So which nation is younger? When he says the older shall serve the younger, which, which nation, fleshly Israel or spiritual Israel?

When did fleshly Israel get established?

No, fleshly Israel.

Okay. It started with Abraham. As a covenant people, I would look at Mount Sinai. There's not necessarily one, one answer. You could either point back, uh, to Abraham or point to Mount Sinai, whatever. They were there first, the fleshly Israelites. Okay. The spiritual Israelites, particularly the Gentiles, they came a lot later. I mean, spiritual Israel was founded, I would say maybe the, uh, death and resurrection of Christ. Others might say the day of Pentecost, whatever. The older nation is Israel. The newer nation is spiritual Israel. And the prophecy is that the younger would be the dominant one, the one who would prevail over the other. And of course, when he's writing this, the fleshly Jews were a lot bigger than spiritual Jews.

Now, 2000 years later, we can see it's the other way around. The spiritual Israelites ended up becoming much larger, much bigger than the fleshly, uh, Jews. But again, fleshly Jews were welcome. They were the very beginning spiritual Israelites. They were all chosen from fleshly Jews. So it's not a matter of any ethnicity is excluded. Everybody is included. But like I say, most of the ethnic Jews down to this day have said, no, I don't want to be part of Christ. I will not accept him as my Lord. Okay.

So we will continue next week because I'm running out of time. But, uh, uh, so just ponder this. You'll have a week. Yes, Dale.

My question is, the foundation or maybe even the reason for the discussion is that God gave Abraham the promise that in him, all nations of the earth, all nations of the earth would be blessed. And God chose these individuals as the path through which Christ was from the world. And I think you mentioned that the personal salvation has nothing to do with this story.

In this chapter, yes. He's following the line of prophecy for Christ to come. And he's saying that some of the people that were in that line believed in some of what he did. Is that? Yeah, that's, that's Paul's point that not all who are, not all are Israel who are of Israel, that just because you have the fleshly descent. Now, we, today, this is maybe kind of old news, but when he's writing this, this is only maybe 20 years after Jesus died. I mean, this was a hard truth for fleshly Jews to accept and to grasp. And I think it's understandable. Hey, God's been dealing with us for 1500 years. We're God's people. I mean, it's like, huh, what's this new group?

And they're claiming to be Jews and, and, and, you know, they don't even follow the law. What's this? This doesn't make sense. You know, I, I can, I can put myself in the place of a fleshly Jew in, in, in the first century. It's like, no, this isn't right. I mean, we're following God gave us this, this covenant, you know, the thing they overlooked is he promised there would be a new covenant, you know, and that came with, with Christ Jesus. And they're still wanting the old covenant. Now there's a new covenant. Um, but like I say, it was a hard truth to accept. Um, the reason it's important, I mean, like I say, I was actually planning to just skip chapter nine.

I would rather talk about some of the chapters that are dealing more with practical everyday things. And that was my plan here in Sunday school. Somebody asked me to do chapter nine and I realized, yeah, we should understand this because this is going to be thrown at us. You know, Peter said we should always be ready to give a defense of the, the, uh, of what is in our heart, what we embrace. And so Calvinists throw this out and it paints a, for most people, a deplorable God. It just arbitrarily picks and chooses, you know, um, Jason, I love, Daniel, I hate, you know, and that may sound good if you're Jason and most Calvinists think they are Jason.

Yeah, I'm one of the chosen. So what's wrong with this? Not so good if you're Daniel. It's like, wait a minute, God hates me and I'm not even born yet, you know, and he already hates me. You know, it's, it's a, it's a wicked teaching. I mean, you can, like I say, if you carelessly read that verse, you're going to think it's saying that, but that's, that, that's, it paints a God that no one could love, uh, unless you're Jason and you're thinking, hey, he loves me. Hey, well, he's a great God, you know. See, I don't think if I were a Calvinist and I thought I was of the chosen, I don't think I could ever be comfortable with, wow, poor Daniel, he just hated and the guy didn't do anything.

He doesn't have a chance. He's hated before he's born. He's condemned to hell before he's born. I mean, that would be, I don't know, it's, it's no wonder that so many Calvinists ended up just quit believing in God. It's like, if that's what God is, uh, I'd rather believe there isn't a God, but we do have a God who's very loving and the door's open to everybody. Nobody is excluded unless they exclude themselves. And that's, that's the message. All right. So we will stop there and we're going to pick up again next week and go over this. And, um, Conrad is, is going to, uh, we're going to have a few minutes of discussion and I asked Conrad if he would sort of, uh, lead the discussion.

And then any other questions you have or comments, like I say, be thinking about this during the week. Next week we will, we will finish this out. And, and again, it took me months and months to grasp this. So you guys are doing good. It looks like a lot of you are grasping it just boom. First thing, it didn't come that easy for me. Thank you for being a part of the Sound Faith channel as we expand the kingdom of God, seizing territory from Satan with every broadcast. This channel is made possible because of all of your generous gifts and donations. If you would like to partner with the Sound Faith channel in our battle to usher in the kingdom of God, you can make a one-time donation or give monthly on our website.

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